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By Jeff Dankert
perureporter@newstrib.com
Princeton Fire Chief John Petrakis spoke 1½ hours Tuesday to Peru City Council’s Public Health and Safety Committee about Princeton’s combined fire department and ambulance service.
It was in the last few minutes that the session got down to brass tacks, helped along by questions from the audience.
Princeton’s combined service is tax-supported. Last year the service cost the city $600,000 on the firefighting end and broke even on the ambulance side — spending and taking in $960,000, Petrakis said.
However, in some years the ambulance side makes money, mostly because of patient transfers between hospitals, Petrakis said.
Peru citizen Tony Bubb asked a what-if. What if Petrakis learned he could have an ambulance service for $50,000 a year, with no staffing shortages and no legacy costs (costs associated with prior service, such as healthcare, pensions and other benefits).
“I’m not going to answer that because I’m going to stay neutral,” Petrakis said.
Peru Volunteer Ambulance Service charges the city of Peru $48,000 a year.
Petrakis began the meeting saying he was not there to sell fire-based emergency medical service to the city of Peru. But during questions, he said: “I’m giving you a really biased opinion right now.”
Petrakis joined Princeton in 2004. The city has had fire-based EMS since 1984, Petrakis said. He’s always known that system and it works well for Princeton, he said.
Fire-based EMS puts ambulance crews inside the fire station and cross-trains personnel to handle both jobs, since they often respond to the same emergencies and incidents. It has grown in use since the 1970s, Petrakis said. Princeton’s has a combined staff of 33, 10 fulltime. Sometimes it is short-handed. On New Years Eve it had to refuse a transfer from Perry Memorial Hospital, Princeton to Peoria because of local call volume and staff shortages, Petrakis said. So the patient was transferred by 10/33 Ambulance Service, Spring Valley, he said.
“Don’t think for a minute this is the best staffing model,” Petrakis said, adding he would like more staff.
A discussion has been going on for months in Peru, much of it out of public earshot, to switch Peru to a fire-based EMS. It accelerated after La Salle ended its contract last year with Peru Volunteer Ambulance Service.
This was the second such ambulance presentation to the committee. Last month it heard from Paramedic Services of Illinois, Schiller Park, which La Salle hired to replace Peru Volunteer Ambulance Service for paramedic and emergency medical service.
Next Tuesday, at 6:30 p.m. at city hall, Peru Volunteer Ambulance Service will present information to the committee.
Rodney Perez, committee member, Peru firefighter and alderman, and Peru Fire Chief Jeff King said the meetings are designed to look for possible savings for the city and do not necessarily mean a switch is coming./
38 comments:
Lets gets the real statistics. According to the City of Princeton audit, which is available online. The cost of the ambulance operations for the City of Princeton was as Mr.Petrakis expressed was $993,923. That does not include any Capital cost of new ambulances, depreciation, long term pensions. That is the simple expenses, Mr.Petrakis was correct. According to the audit the charged services were $898,543. Not would anybody would call breakeven. I would also believe that charged services are much different than actual revenue, you never collect what you charge. As he was quoted "Don't think for a minute that this is the best staffing model". And the Peru Elected officials continue to look at these various alternatives to what they currently have? You wonder who's stands to benefit with the change of services?
4:41PM
Wonder shy google took so long to get your post to the blog?
My only comment re: PVAS is: this conversation has been going on for about 3 years on blogs and in the public for years before that. When something goes on that long and continues ad nauseum it leads one to believe that there are issues to be corrected.
If this is a not for profit corp., then take our city aldermen off the board. Either the city will run it totally or not at all. Get the city our of the ambulance business and let them sink or swim on their own.
Or incorporate it into the city and maintain standards and honesty with extremely well qualified personel.
Lois,
Why do you think being an elected official precludes someone from serving on the board of directors of another organization? Was it wrong when Tony Ferrari and Dave Potthoff served on the board of directors for Peru Little League? Business leaders, and that includes elected officials, are sought after to fill boards of directors at various institutions, i.e. banks, not for profits, corporations, etc. Unless there is a direct conflict of interest between the different organizations, such as direct competition, or one organization controlling the other, then there is no reason for change amongst the members. The city council does not directly or indirectly control PVAS B.O.D. other than signing a contract with them or not.
Does the city of Peru pay any other business that provides a service to their citizens? The city of peru needs water sampling services for health. does the city pay them a guaranteed flat rate on top of the service charges? Why does Peru pay 50,000.00 for an ambulance service and on top of that the ambulance service charges the citizens of peru top dollar to handle them. Maybe Peru should ask LaSalle if they can handle the ambulance contract for Peru? Peru pays Lasalle 5,000.00 which is 45,000.00 less than they are paying now. sign a contract with Lasalle for 1 year and make it so no other private company can run ambulance in Peru. That will sink Peru Ambulance ship in about 30 days, then city of Peru helps out peru ambulance by paying 50,000.00 for their three ambulances and equipment. WIN WIN for everyone!!!
FYI Lasalle pays PSI about 40,000 a MONTH.
7:44PM
Tony, you have a horse in this race and I won't get into a discussion with you regarding the services and maintenance of this service called PVAS
What's the matter Lois, cat got your tounge? No good response so you come up with some lame excuse why can't respond? Sounds about right to me.
Why should I discuss with Mr Bubb about the ambulance service when his wife works for PVAS?
6:08 maybe, but if Peru signs a contract with Lasalle Ambulance that would save Peru 50,000 per year then LaSalle Ambulance would increase their revenue. And is a win win win! Just think, if Peru did that for just 2 years and banked the savings, I do believe they can go out on there own. Hopefully certain individuals within the city of Peru is reading this.
Seems like Mr. Bubb could cause more harm then good for PVAS. Mr. Bubb has allot at stake here. His wife loses her job then he may have to stop depending on the Gov. And go out to find work. So his fight and demeanor may cause that.
anon 8:49 Just wondering what makes you think the government supports me in any way shape or form. Not that my finances are anyone's business. It's very easy to hide behind the nameless tag and throw mud. If you want to discuss how I make a living or anything else, I'll gladly meet you face to face and straighten your (words censored) thinking out.
Back to savings. Nothing has been indicated in the two previous presentations that would remotely present a savings for the City of Peru. It looks that the only reason this is a topic is that the New administration would like to see more fulltime jobs and a bigger role for the current fire department. It looks like a number of those bloggers that favor more union jobs and wasteful spending have now gone on the predicted attack on Tony Bubb. Do you really need to attack someone/. Read the anon 4:41 blog and without personal attacks please tell us the $$$ benefit or professional benefit of a having a outside Peru company servicing Peru's ambulance needs.
Exactly how could signing a contract with Lasalle save Peru $50,000? Lasalle pays PSI about $40,000 a month and they are going to contract with Peru for free? Think again. I will say it again and again, there is no way for the city of Peru to take over the ambulance service and not cost the tax payers more while still providing the same level of service.
While on the topic of spending more of peru's taxpayer's monies. Back to blogs regarding firefighter pay question in Peru wlpo news. At 12:02 a.m. Anon. Blogged about peru's fire chief wanted $120,000 salary benefit package a year. Does anyone know anything about this? Also, Since the westclock fire there were many blogs about peru's fire chief being on vacation again and asst. Fire chief being in command for the first 24 hours. A blog was also made how everybody has a right to vacation. That blogger was correct. However, I'm glad that fire chief king was able to attend the meeting along with alderman Perez and made comments regarding the presentation from Mr.Petrakis. Nice presentation Mr. Pertains. Not that this matters, but Peru's fire Chief Jeff King flew yesterday Jan. 19th to las Vegas for Another vacation. Three weeks after his New Years eve Nashville vacation. I assume Asst.'Chief Jim Duncan is the commander in charge again. The convention in Vegas is Consumers Electronic convention. And still getting the same salary!!!
A higher salary can be accomodated with the increase in responsibility......its in the cards with the absorbing the ambulance service.
9:59 You really think that Lasalle Ambulance Service wouldn't jump on signing a contract/ agreement with Peru and waive that $50,000.00 annual fee?
Why wouldn't Lasalle waive that fee? after all they would triple their revenue and would be able to break away from a contracted service with PSI. I'm sure Lasalle only has a yearly contract with PSI, once they are up and running and feel comfortable with their staffing they should be able to break away and if they could have the full ambulance territory Lasalle and Peru for just two years. CHING CHING/ WIN WIN!!then who knows this could be such a great deal for the entire community including the PFD that they keep it that way. The Lasalle and Peru FD Chief's and Indians all work great together than ever before, and sure seems like both municipalities work together better now than ever before.
Now LaSalle wants to breakoff of the PSI agreement? Something is a bit off balance. If LaSalle wants to get rid of PSI, why would Peru consider that choice? Triple the revenue, hum! Lets get real and please keep the fiction to the confines of one fire station.
Anon 1:49 a great deal? I have some farmland in Alaska to sell for a good price. You want some? Its a win-win. It also sounds like a bail-out to me. And I bet one of the Chiefs will supervise the fires and another the ambulance, with a nice hefty raise for both. Don't inhale the fumes on that theory Anon 1:49.
Wrong it's a three year contract with PSI and how in the world would Lasalle provide free ambulance service to the city and triple there revenue? I think you need to quit living on your dream world.
Doesn't Peru Ambulance Bill the citizens, and Medicare and such? Plus the bonus of the transfers? If La Salle Ambulance was the only service taking care of LaSalle and Peru they probably would triple their revenue like the one post stated. La Salle wouldn't need that $48,000.00 fee from Peru. La Salle has allot less overhead then Peru Ambulance. Everything in Peru is New including the building. HUGE overhead for Peru Ambulance, PVAS sure isn't very conservative. So yes, La Salle probably would at least double revenue just from the transfers alone.
Yes, Peru has very new equipement and spends alot in training. Anon 6:57... your right it would cost much less to get rid of that expensive training and new ambulances PVAS provides. Its much safer to have a firefighter throw somebody in the back of them there old used outdated trucks. And what would you do with that extra so called revenue. Place it in the general budget for more salaries. Sounds ideal to me.
Doesn't LaSalle bill the residents at a much higher price than PVAS? aNON 6:57 your running out of digets to count. Stick to the simple math. Triple the revenue provide free rides and bonus. Call the free service now, you need some oxygen. Gee just think if the Cities could combine the police departments and catch twice as many criminals and get twice as much revenue? It would probably double the revenue for LaSALLE. Our you actually serious?
Question for Alderman Perez??or anybody who can answer. Is fire chief jeff king certified as a EMT?
Now,now! Let's change our ambulance service, have a full time fire department, build a new firehouse and police station(like city hall), and pay a fire chiefs position $120,000 a year. Sounds like a deal to us taxpayers, doesn't it?? A snowball effect, but who can see it coming? WOW!
The city of peru has to have a fire department. It is a city service just like the street department is. The city charges taxes, in return they provide these services. Why would we as a city not want to make some of those tax dollars back by having our fire department run the ambulance?
The city has a large expense for the fire department. It also has an expense currently of $48000 a year for an ambulance. By no means am I denying that Peru Ambulance provides excellent care and are outstanding for the community. But its smart business to want some return on an investment. PVAS takes that $48000 and also collects all the billing from its services. Lasalle may pay $40000 a month in wages and other expenses, but do you know how much they take in a month either?
Of course the expense would go up if Peru Fd took over the ambulance. The reason princeton justifies having the ambulance is they offset some of their FIRE DEPARTMENT expenses with the PROFITS from the ambulance service. This is how the suburbs and other towns offset their fire department expense. It is actually allows cities to have a cross-trained, full time fire department without passing the expense on to the tax payers.
The city of Peru pays PVAS do provide a service that they (pvas) PROFITS from. Peru took over and succesfully ran its electrical services....Why? because they saw a way to make a profit and still provide citizens with a service.
Questioning motives and the plan is one thing, but resisting change and growth within the city is another.
10:35 I do believe all Peru Fire Fighters are EMTs I know the Chief is, I don't think the assistant chief is though.
I think you might be referring to EMT B or basic and doubt if many are advanced as in Paramedic. Possibly one who trained in Ottawa and served on their department might be qualified as paramedic.
How much does the Ambulance Chief make? I'm sure he has a salary of at least 50,000.00 per year? That does not come from a city tax from Peru tax payers does it? I would imagine it comes from the revenue they collect from ins companies and charges to people that are transferred etc?
If Peru Ambulance generates positive revenue from billing and not from a city tax, what makes us think if the Peru FD took it over it would cost the tax payers so much more? If Peru ambulance is operating in the positive then I'm sure the Peru FD could also. If the Peru fire chief is currently earning 40,000 per year, which would include his paid calls and salaries, take the 50,000 that Peru is giving to Peru ambulance that = 90,000.00 for a salary package put him on city benefit package and there is your 130,000 pay package. Than the chief would be full time and able to do the things the city needs him to do that a full time chief should be doing. On top of that, the city then has their own Fire/ Ambulance service. Point being.. There is plenty of revenue in the ambulance service that it would not cost the tax payers like you are saying it would.
We can't forget that the director of PVAS is driving a vehicle with an "M" license plate, like in Municipal. Last year we went as far as the Mayor looking for an answer to that one and did not get one. The only thing I remember being said is that it is very easy to get an "M" plate.
Who pays for insurance and repairs, I don't know but only hope it is not the city.
People down at city hall don't like to talk about such things. :)
Anon 3:43 if you listened to the Princeton cheif there are no PROFITS. The cheif stated that at best they break even on ambulance service. And that is what they billed, in reality an ambulance service only collects a portion of what is billed. If you look at Princetons budget they actually lost money on ambulance service.
Lois lets not also forget that the Peru fire cheif AND asst. cheif both drives vehicles with "M" plates. The city of Peru, with taxpayer dollars pay for insurance, maintenance and gas for these vechiles. In addition the fire dept is spending almost $30,000 of taxpayers money to buy the asst cheif a brand new truck.
Most of the firefighters are not EMTs.
The Princeton Fire Chief indicated that usually they make money on the transfers but that last year for reasons unknown to us in Peru, they just about broke even. In previous years the ambulance service did make a profit.
The Fire Chief and Asst are city employees and it seems proper to have M plates on their city purchased trucks.
As far as I am aware of the head of
the ambulance service is not a city employee so how can it be right that we purchase his plates for him and probably insurance also. This is for his personal vehicle not an ambulance.
Back to the Emt education. Since there are several levels, I believe all firemen are qualified as Basic Life Support EMTs but to work an ambulance service, you need paramedics also who can perform advanced life support or ALS services.
Who pays for the maintenance,insurance, and gas for the ambulances?
Good question 6:07 and who owns the building they're housed in?
The ambulance service is a non profit corporation that owns, pays for, insures, maintains, it's building and all if it's vehicles. The city does not insure or maintain any of it no more than it maintains or insures any vehicles that belong to test or any other company that provides a service for the city. They also provide work comp insurance, liability, insurance for their employees and building and vehicles. Even when their ins was thru the city ins carrier, which I am not sure why. They paid us back for it. Approx 75k per year.
They have always paid their own way. They merely provide a service for the city and the ONLY money given to them is the contracted monthly payment of 4k.
And why does Peru pay them $48,000 per year? The citizens still have to pay full price for their services so what is the $48,000 for?
Wrong most firemen are trained as first responders and are not EMTs. There is a difference. An ambulance crew must have two EMTs. if you are running an ALS service one must be an EMT-P, which is a paramedic. The fire may have a few EMT basics however I don't think that have any trained paramedics.
2:27 PM
One of the current firemen is a former Ottawa firemen which is Fire/Ems Ambulance service.
Correct , not trained paramedics. Being trained and certified for CPR, in no way has anything to do with certification of a paramedic. ! Where is peru's Fire Departments websit? If I am correct, it use to have pictures of firemen and what their qualification and certification were. Anybody can claim to be certified or whatever, but the question is , is it true ? I would think that a fire chief who is in in involved in the discussions for the ambulance service should be a paramedic (certified). I've noticed alot of, "I think", being answered to annonomous bloggers questions. It's time for facts! Does anybody find it odd that the person in questions isn't answering?? Red flag or green flag!! F.Y.I. Just my opinion and observation.
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