Questions will now began to surface and I have a few of my own.
1. Does the city of Peru have any regulations regarding a business located amongst other businesses as to the type of material that they can store in their structures? If the materials are flammable, do we require special permits? limitations? fire walls?sprinkler systems?
2. It appears that the building was easily accessed without the need of keys or any type of tools to gain entry. Does this mean the windows were open? Did they break the windows or were they already broken? People have said that access had previously been gained and some equipment damaged which I read were fire extinguishers.
Did the building pass inspection by our city building inspector? Does our building inspector have a schedule in which he checks local facilities for safety? Is that his job? 3. The fire hydrant issue reamains. Were any hydrants in the area near to the Westclox fire used to fight the fire or did we depend upon FD water tankers to haul water to the scene?
53 comments:
Excellent questions Lois. I hope someone with the proper knowledge will answer them. If the fire hydrants were not properly maintained and therefore not usable in this situation - who is responsible for that maintenance?
I imagine Mr. Schweickert has all FOIA request under lock and key using his infamous denial letter for a request "... due to possible legal litigation etc". I believe the area that was on fire was toured about 10 months ago by the building inspector, the fire chief and Schweickert. I also believe Schweickert sent written correspondence because it is rumored the Chief said he would refuse to send his men in the building due the the condition. Now if this is true, I imagine the documents exist with pictures of the condition of the building prior to "any" cleanup. Now if someone dropped the ball after that, well again that is the fault of this administration.
Water was not an issue-Hydrant's WERE an issue with valves and also propering mapping to know which zones (upper or lower) the hydrants were associated/pulling from, not that the Superintendent would have known this information even if he was not MIA. Again an administration problem.
Also there are indeed environmental concerns not only with the material that was burned, but with the materials that were in the 100+ year old builing. When I was researching the building records at NIU and interviewing those who worked in the factory over the years; it is my understanding that the area where the fire started is where the coating and dipping took place. Recall the old wood plank floors soaked with the chemicals and cresol over the years. When they needed to switch out materials from the process they just rolled/dumped the liquids down the hill. Not to mention the asbestos that has already been verified by the IDPH to be located in certain areas of the building. But the Administration is receiving "guidance" from unqualified inviduals. Another administrative problem.
The problem with the City of Peru (no different that the steam plant on Water Street) is that certain individuals believe they can "demolish" and "develop" however and wherever regardless of the cost to the taxpayer whether it be environmental, health or monetary.
Take the City of LaSalle and I believe it was the old Mathessien School building. Instead of assume they would demolish the building because they could; the City was responsible and contacted the IEPA for and ADVISE and guidance on the proper procedures.
ALDERMEN and ALDERWOMAN WAKE-UP!!
Kristy
Also I want to know where was the Superintendent Mr. Bleck during the fire? I noticed he was in the office today. The fire chief flew back immediately from Tennessee for the fire...was he also on vacation?
It will be interesting to hear from Alderman Perez since he was actively fighting the fire. Rodney will you be as vociferous with the Westclox disaster as you were with the change in fire works venue? Will you fight to protect the public or protect the powers that be?
Kristy
The Peru fire dept. Is responsible for flushing hydrants. Where was peru's fire chief jeff king for the first twelve hours of this tragic historical fire??! In Nashville again on another one of his vacations and leaving
G his responsibilities on asst. Chief Duncan. Peru needs a fire chief that takes the responsibilities of that position seriously. In today's paper mayor Harl met with Duncan and King, wouldn't it be interesting to know what they talked about?? How to cover each others back is a possibility. So, the taxpayers can be left to wonder.
Linda, who approves comments for this forum,? In order for them to be posted. I hhave posted several comments over the past several weeks and they don't seem to get published I noticed. Everything that I have commented on is truths. Could it be that political people see my comments and keep them from being published??!makes me wonder!!'
Linda, unless the person who responds identifies him or herself by first and last name and qualifications for answering then no one on the blog can provide a credible answer. All of the "answers" in the past about the fire department, ambulance service and other issues have included many anonymous experts, but none who actually give a real answer. It is just a place to post rumors and opinions, which is fine. I just wanted to differentiate between the two.
I also wanted to say that I hope this horrible situation does not turn into you providing an opportunity for the anonymous bloggers to bash the city, the mayor, the aldermen, the building inspector, the fire department, etc., etc. I'm sure not everything was perfect, but this forum brings out the worst in people who criticize from the cheap seats in complete anonymity. There are plenty of things to criticize in government, but I hope the criticism on your blog is reserved for those who committed a crime. I doubt that will be any of the people mentioned I mentioned above. Thank you for sharing to my opinion.
3:29 PM
I approve all comments to the blog and I have NOT with held any comments for a long time. I would suggest you try using a different browser and see if they go through to the blog. I assure you your comments are not getting here to be published.
It is my understanding the FD "claimed" hydrants after a failed ISO pressure test and I heard rumor at one time last year about the City failing a pressure test by the corp of engineers or something...I think it had something to do with if Flint Hills or the barges were on fire. I only heard a very very brief part of the story but I think that is when the FD was "chosen" to do hydrants.
Kristy
Some very good questions posted here. But as said above you will never see or hear the answers. They will only let you see or hear what they want you to see and hear. It is true the FD did take over the hydrant maintenance program but they only greased the caps and made sure the valves worked. I saw a firetruck stop down from my house and talked to them. They were flowing the hydrant and recording pressure readings then they greased the caps and moved on.I am sure that the sub-standard pressures/hydrants got passed along for someone to look at within the water dept.
I am not responsible at all for this blog. I can only comment on it like anyone else. Whoever you are I don't know where you got the idea that I had control. Only Lois and Steve do. And, I do know that Lois posts all comments unless they are very vulgar and out of line.
Kristi, Thanks for asking questions and signing your name.I promised to address questions to bloggers that sign their name.. and I was notified you had posted asking questions.
"Rodney will you be as vociferous with the Westclox disaster as you were with the change in fire works venue? Will you fight to protect the public or protect the powers that be"?
Kristi- I'm not sure what your asking here but will try and answer the best I can. The "Westclox disaster" is a tragic event for the entire community, it is clear that this is a criminal investigation and for me,or any other city official to speak out would be premature and irresponsible while an investigation by law enforcement and the EPA ( "powers that be" ) have not even really begun, but I assure you that if something arises that holds the responsibility of my position to handle.. I will be "vociferous" and share with the council, and public any thoughts or suggestions I have that may keep our community safe and protected.
I hope this answers your questions,if not, please be more specific of what you are asking.
Thank you,
Alderman Perez
No town has a perfect hydrant system . They said they had over 20 water trucks filling in Peru alone , not to mention the ones filling in LaSalle . That's over 80,000 gallons (give or take )every 15 minutes from the water system . That's gonna take some toll on a small town's water system like Peru trying to battle a 100year fire . A hydrant will get used more in one night than its entire life by firefighters who don't all use the same system or valves or hoses and thats alot of wear and tear on the valves , caps , etc . These arent excuses for everything but you have to keep in mind this is a fire that noone probably will ever see the magnitude of again . There will be alot of problems .
Why can't you all wait til the damn fire is out before we start all this crap?? Let the firemen get it all under control before we start throwing all these questions and complaints at the department...my God, People!! Every town has issues, but why do we have to bring it all up before they have the fire out? Then, they might need to REST a little bit...and for The chief not being here, maybe he was on a vacation...he gets those, ya know?? Jump to conclusions much???
8:54AM
My questions are intended for those who manage our city or try to manage our city. This issue came up this past summer regarding home owners and their property and I want to know how seriously the city has been enforcing regulations regarding the type of business that burned.
It had nothing to do with the fire department as they are doing their job and doing it well regardless of who was in "charge" through it all.
Since New Years Eve, 2012 How low has the water pressure been in any Peru area? At what reading should a boil order be issued and who is responsible for the boil order to be issued?
Did any water lines collapse and if they did what is the result of a water line collapse?
It had been stated by the Peru Fire Department Chief that if the next attack did not extinguish the Westclox Fire that plans were to let it burn itself out upon which the EPA told the PFD Chief that he could not let the fire burn out because of lack of knowledge of what chemicals and pollutants were in the fire and smoke. Clarification please.
Lois, you plus anyone else are within your rights to ask the questions which have been asked. In the last number of years methods of communication have made it much easier to ask and answer in greater numbers. The newspaper has a "open form" in the editorial which is not as immediate, otherwise I do not know of anything close to the blog as a means of communication.
To anyone who is interested in why certain questions come up now, "What interest is in yesterdays news"? Its the topic of the day Baby. Its why you get paid the big bucks. Its the Super Bowl Touchdown Pass, the World Series Home Run, the last second game winning shot from mid court. It is bigger than Peru's biggest fire Saedlers Hardware on 4th street over 60 years ago. Its news and President Harry Truman had a saying for those who could not stand the heat in the kitchen which is still still advisable today.
Thank you for bringing up Soedlers fire which was in the location of the current church in downtown Peru. Am I right in thinking it was also a winter fire? I don't think I ever heard the cause
Soedlers was a winter fire. Was the reason for the fire oily rags?
Yes, true , everybody deserves a vacation. But we taxpayers pay for a fire chief! Who vacations VERY offer. At least 5 vacations a year. Who covers for him???asst. Fire chief Duncan. We taxpayers don't pay h extra for that responsibility, do we?? The volunteer fireme can attest to this. I assume that what the blogger was saying is that being new years as with any firethat could occur for our fire chief to choose to be out of town knowing that stastically more fires happen that night. And possibly a lower manpower with firemen celebrating, he should be made available for that reason. He is being paid as fire chief and also paid for Each fire call he attends. Is chief king signed in the books at the station as being out of town when he is out of
Town. This as I understand is SOP ( standard operating procedure). Again, yes we all need vacations but how many per year., when having a position as fire chief. Thank you
What about the Peru Hotel?
The Peru Hotel fire also had more questions than answers.
From the N.T. "Hotspots Still Burning"
The section that burned was loaded with many types of plastic from businesses and industries. It included rolls of plastic film, plastic beads, plastic eyeglass lenses and plastic chairs, Peru building inspector Frank Taylor said. Semitrailers parked at a loading dock contained carpeting, he said.
“Frank and I considered this a worse-case scenario in the city,” King said. “We had a lot of fire load. The potential was for it to go and that’s what happened.”
Over the past year King and Taylor worked with E&R International, a recycling company, to reduce its load of plastics by about half and to ship more plastic out than it was taking in, King said.
Taylor walked through parts of the building Tuesday with two Environmental Protection Agency officials. When asked if the building contained any hazardous or toxic chemicals, Taylor and other officials said Tuesday there were none that they knew of.
However, the burning plastic would emit hazardous and toxic compounds including carcinogens, King said during another press briefing Tuesday at Peru city hall. King told the media to look up any study of burning plastics.
“You’re going to be surprised what comes off of burning plastic,” King said.
An EPA study of burning plastic film used in farm fields showed it emitted benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene, hexane and 13 hydrocarbon compounds, such as pyrene. The EPA also reported that burning household trash, such as in burn barrels, emits dioxins, hydrocarbons, formaldehyde and heavy metals.
The Carus building across from Westclox, which is a former Westclox office building, was having its air evaluated Tuesday and was having surfaces cleaned, Taylor said.
Brian, what are you asking about the Peru Hotel? The hotel stood alone and fire fighting equipment was much better than in the latter 40's when Soedlers burned. The Soedler builing was contained within the block and there was fear the whole block was going to burn down.
Upon discovery of the dangers E&R International created in a residential area why was it allowed to continue operations at all rather than just diminished. Now a person starts to really worry when the personnel the city is paying show such a lackadaisical attitude to a dangerous problem of such magnitude. Taylor and King have just admitted that they are part of the E&R International problem.
just that it was a big fire.
'Taylor and other officials said Tuesday there were none that they knew of'(referring to hazardous or dangerous chemicals)
And who are the other officials with what type of credentials and what credentials does Taylor have to make that statement to the general public. Credentials that would have us believe his statement.
@ 8:45 "No one will see a fire of this magnitude again." I believe that is what they said about the crafters village fire. That none of the firemen would ever see a fire of this magnitude again in their firefighting careers. Have you ever seen the upstairs at the discount furniture store across from westclox?
Anon 8:45 Never say never. Have you ever seen a chemical fire in a residential area? Never always happens. We still have most of the Westclox building still standing. Don't let your guard down.
Hydrants: When you take into account the overall size and scale of the Peru water/hydrant system, opening and drawing that heavily on such a few number of hydrants in such a geographically confined area will often explain reduced water availability and pressures. Also take into account that only a few hydrants, if any, are linked directly to a water main. Most hydrants are linked on a circuit (loop) of other hydrants and may include the water supply lines to homes and businesses.
Chief King: I understand that some people have an agenda against him personally or the PFD, so my point will be brief. He is not a full time fire chief. To say that he should be available each time the pager goes off for a fire call is ludicris. That would be the same as saying that a paid on call fireman must respond to each call, must limit personal vacations, can not leave the city on holidays because there MAY be an increase in call volumes, etc. Should the Command Vehicle sit at his house while he is out of town? Probably not. But should he turn in his gear and bugles? You're reachin' awful far.
Wondering, what's the salary for peru's asst. Fire chief Duncan and Fire chief King? Also, is it true that they get paid $32 per fire call that they report to? Also, is it true that the each have a command vehicle to drive around town regarding business matters. Does either Duncan or King drive their command vehicle to and from their regular jobs? If yes, who pays for the gas?? And why are they allowed to drive it to and from regular jobs? I also wonder what other departments in our surrounding communities pay their volunteer firemen per call? Also, if a fire calls last a few hours, don't the firemen get paid an additional amount of money???and what would that amount be?? Maybe alderman Ferrari can answer this question or Alderman Perez. TY.
Curious, does any fireman or the fire chief king, or asst. chief Duncan have an associates or a bachelor degree in fire/science/ safety? Also, are they certified EMT's?
I Wonder 1 thing. Was there a working sprinkler system in any of those buildings? With a complex that big wouldn't you think a company would have installed a some kind of sprinkler system for fire protection?
Interesting. Peru's fire chief jeff king is part owner of a company called tri-state fire control out of moline, Illinois. Sprinkler systems? Knowledge??????I believe this is his full-time job, based out of moline! Did anybody notice the Getz fire service trucks driving around westclocks? I have noticed they service some
Fire extinguishers and systems in the are, by their tags and stickers on equipment.
Amazes me that the people who are asking these questions are the ones not contributing to their community. Those who criticize weren't sitting directing traffic, fighting fires, or a citizen assisting emergency personnel with what they could. Its easy to criticize from behind your computer people.
Chief King isnt a fulltime employee of the city. He gets paid pennies for the hours he puts in as chief. Even if he was a full time employee there is not enough time for him to inspect and hold all businesses to current fire codes. We do not live in a wealthy community and have such luxuries .
As for education, these individuals have to supplement their own time with training when it is available. They take time away from their community and volunteer. Yes Peru Firefighters get paid for staying up all hours of the night and leaving their family when yours needs them. Can you say trained individuals ARENT worth $32?
Also, what volunteer has time to get a BA in fire science? To get paid a few thousand a year?
Lets be realistic. Yes we need to make our community transparent but also having unrealistic expectations is just foolish. Realize where we live and you are asking? Do you even have the right answer yourself?
8:12 PM
You are evidently criticizing everyone who posts because you don's see many names and if you don't see their names how in heavens name do you know what they do, don't do as volunteers. Were you everywhere checking everybody?
There is not one comment that I have read either on this blog, the NT blog or on Facebook that criticized any of our volunteers in the city or any of the volunteers from outside of Peru or any of the paid police or firefighters. They have had praise and accolades given to them from every corner of every city in the Illinois Valley.
So what was the point of your post? Nothing that I can see.
4:13 PM
All would be certified at this level:
EMT-Basic Course
The most basic level of EMT training, to perform ambulance-based and pre-hospital life support functions, patient assessment, CPR, administration of oxygen and control of bleeding. EMT-Basic probably all of the PFD
Beyond that only some and I don't know for sure but I don't believe we have any paramedics on the fire dept.
There many places in the state that are "fire academies" where firemen learn how to do the job.
Lois did you happen to get Chief King's salary??
I agree with 8:12 p.m. and so do many others. This blog is largely criticism and rumors and questions that no one on here can answer. Go back and read your own blog. There is no criticism of our fire department and its chief on this blog? Are you serious?
8:47 AM
I never said there was no criticism of the Fire Chief or the PFD, I did say that no one has had and should have had any criticism of either during the disasterous fire the city just experienced at Westclox. Everyone did come together and do what they were needed to do.
There has been criticism of the the Chief and the Department which they brought upon themselves through their own actions but none of it applied to the recent fire.
10:04 PM
I did post it sometime back. The Fire Chief gets $1800 per year basic salary and splits 3200 from esda between himself and the Peru Police Chief.
? I don't think the peru' s fire chief /fire Marshall only gets$1,800 a year, maybe closer to $9,000.00 a year. Also, being paid for each fire call he attends, in addition $32 dollars for each call he attends. Maybe an alderman can clarify salaries. I would assume asst. Fire chief Jim Duncan receives a salary for asst. Chief as well being paid for each call he attends. ?? Does anyone know if salaries ads published in the paper?? Thank you.
11:28 Yes the salaries are in the paper. However, according to the 2012 budget the fire chief/marshall received a salary of $8,400. The assistant chief gets $1850.
11:28 AM
Ok, I had time to go to the 2012 City Operating Budget.
The Fire chief receives 4,100 per year as chief and 4,100 for being fire marshall. Add about 1600 as his part in ESDA.
Asst. fire chief receives 1,800
Pd on call firemen are budgeted for 67,000
Full time fire engineers 310,000.
Total Fired Dept. Budget is 698,750.00
For contrast, our recreation director gets 9.900 per year for managing Peru parades and summer recreation activities.
The total fire department budget is going to be the same if there are no fires, training, school seminars,parades etc. in Peru. Upon adding in the volunteers the cost of the fire dept enlarges. So what was the total cost of the Peru Fire Dept including volunteers last year?
In my opinion, it seems that asst. fire chief Jim Duncan isn't compensated enough monies for all the times during a year where he takes over as
commander in chief for fire calls. I've noticed that in the newspaper his name is mentioned quite frequently in regards to fire calls.
Lois, how many full time engineers do we have that make up that 310,000?
What is a full time fire engineer?
We have 4 full time engineers.PFD currently does not have a web site for the department with their names.
And it is a long story about why we don't.
So the fire chief MAY make $13000.00 a year. WOW. The people on this blog complaining that he's overpaid AND has a command vehicle. I'd like to see them do that job for that exhorbitant amount of money....Priceless.
I believe that full time fire departments in the large suburbs of big cities make that. But. That I believe is bases on having fire science degrees from fire academies, and other requirements such as certified EMT's etc. It's understood that their are classes that can be taken to receive a
Certificate for firefighter . 1,2 and 3. These are classes like 1 night a week for
Maybe 6 or so weeks. Depending on the class. This is not a degree.
Certificates are not degrees. FF 2 or 3 courses are certification programs. These are 2-3 nights a week for 6 months usually. If your a full time fighter taking the course at a university, its 40 hours a week for several months as well.
Many chiefs go to universities and receive degrees in fire science or management. These ARE DEGREES from ACCREDITED universities.
As for the certificate programs, they come from courses (USUALLY FROM A FF SCHOOL AT U OF I) called IFSI. They focus on certain disciplines such as hazmat, collapse, water, rope, etc.
Also, these chiefs receive officer training through the Office of the State Fire Marshall. Which should speak for itself.
So, yes these people receive actual degrees and training ON TOP of degrees.
After reading the above blogs, it seems that the questions still remain. What DEGREES in fire science, etc. does peru's fire chief have? I would hope at least a bachelors due to the fact that he was requesting a salary/benefit package of $120,000 if he were to become a full time fire chief/ city employee. If the peru's fire department had a website, some of these ?'s could be answered. In requesting a LARGE salary, one should be paid appropriately to their certifications and show notorized copies etc.., not just what a person says their certifications are. This should be SOP with any position .
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