This blog is maintained for the sole purpose of allowing the people of Peru and those interested in the cities of the Illinois Valley to express their views.
“It doesn’t take a majority to win, just a tireless minority that will keep starting brush fires in the mind and hearts of their fellow men.” Samuel Adams
Did That really Happen? Did the council pass an ordinance they had no clue what they passed? Who was the idiot that asked " Did we remove stop signs?" Whoever asked that, did that same person vote yes? Obviously if he had an ordinance in front of him to read he wouldn't have to ask such stupid questions. Kristy---who was that? And Thank you for recording that. What a joke!!! and Thank you to Sherry and Rodney for not playing that stupid game of DUH!!!and voting NO for something you had no clue what was being passed.
The council kind of knew what the ordinance was about but did they have the details in front of them, the answer is NO. That was Ald. Waldorf who asked that question who is on the Public Works committee which includes roads and he voted to approve the ordinance also whether he had details or not.
Mayor Harl reminded the council that he was having an ordinance drawn up on the Public Comment currently allowed for 3 minutes with no answers from either the Mayor or Council. Do you suppose that the aldermen will get a copy of that before they are expected to vote. It absolutely amazes me that the majority of the council put up with this. They should all be voting no until someone gets their act together and gives them copies before hand.
Less than one week ago the hot topic was about the OMA Act and IMFR participants who had a total compensation that exceeds $75,000 per year. There was a half page article in the Ottawa newspaper on this subject and Peru Mayor did not have the information asked for by the paper so he referred to the City Clerk who could not be reached. What is the present status of Peru in regards to releasing this info. This Act became effective on Aug. 26, 2011.
Alderman Waldorf is not only a member but the Chairman of the public works committee and he was clueless!
Voting on unseen ordinances has been occurring for quite some time now and I have actually been collecting data on how a few ordinances may not have been written in final form as they were read and approved at the meetings over the years.
I am not certain how it is legal to vote and make something a law/enforceable if you have never read or seen the proposed ordinance in written form.
OMGosh!!!! I'm laughing so hard I can't even believe what I just heard! That was Alderman Waldorf making a motion to pass that ordinance, then he asks what signs were removed???? This is great! What a circus. Make a motion on something you have no clue what you made a motion for, then you ask such a stupid question in public?? Oh Boy! Peru is in way worse shape than I thought. Way to go boys.
I read the paper tonight and realized that our city council doesn't play well together. Actually, rude was the first word that came to mind. How in the heck can you vote on an ordinance and not know what it's about? And those people are called businessmen and business leaders in Peru. Oh hell, that explains why were going down the crapper one turd at a time. You all should be so proud.
City Clark Bartley is back in his office and I do believe he would give the information if asked about it. I have not had time to work on it. He did say the new web design was close to completion so maybe he needs to be reminded of this but if our mayor says not, we will still have to go to city hall and collect it ourselves.
At the end of the taping there is a mocking laugh and a short vocal nursery rhyme both in a very unintelligent, nonprofessional manner which definitely were intended to insult someone or a group of someones. This outburst appears to have come from the table on the side where the individual with the dark blue shirt is sitting and making funny faces. This person appears to be conducting his own meeting whoever he is I hope he is not a city official.
No it was just someone in the audience amused by the behavior of the council on the issues. This video was taken while sitting among many people in the audience and it was surprising there was not more "chatter" heard on it.
Actually the laughter and circus music was from me videotaping this comical episode. When you see the videos prior you may "appreciate" the satire...very few in the City knew what was going on, where signs were placed, when signs were removed or put up, what lines were painted where, who was told what, how businesses were being affected.
I originally recorded the video for a private record of how meetings are conducted but after reviewing all the videos it was decided the public should see exactly how decisions and ordinances are being determined in Peru.
Actually there is precedence for suing and overturning acts under violation of the OMA concerning just such actions. "Some lawsuits are filed because the public body makes a decision at a meeting with absolutely no discussion. When it appears there should have been a public discussion, such as when the issue is controversial, members of the public sometimes assume that a meeting was held in private and discussion took place "behind closed doors," and file a lawsuit."
When council members are blindsided by ordinance that would ordinarily require extensive review and votes are taken, the appearance is that the actual decision making occurred elsewhere and as such is a violation of the OMA. Documenting the submission of proposed ordinance to all members prior to the meeting, and vigorous healthy debate in the meeting are the remedies to such lawsuits.
ANON 7;44 While that person you are referring to is apparently not the person laughing in the video you did say that he was making faces and yes, indeed he is a city official.
Playing well is for the Mother's Club at the local school or the Girl Scout troop. I like how a few of them pouted when they didn't get their way. I don't feel sorry for them, just found them to be ineffective.
The video broadcast of the city meetings is a good idea. But I bet the city officals do not want it broadcast but it will show to whoever watches it just how dumb and funny the city officials are-If you didnt know it already!
9:28 I do believe all meetings are posted and held during a public venue located in the Deli conference room. Votes take place in the council chambers to keep it legit.
SHORT BUT SWEET KRISTY ! THE WHOLE MEETING NEEDS TO BE RECORDED ! IF THE WHOLE CITY SAW THIS THEN THEY WOULD KNOW HOW MUCH HELP PERU NEEDS ! YOU SHOULD SEND THIS TO AMERICA MOST FUNNY VIDEOS , YOUD WIN ! BUSINESS LEADERS ? YOUR KIDDING RIGHT ? YOU WOULDN'T SEE THEM DOING THAT KINDA STUFF AT THEIR BUSINESS . THEY DO IT HERE BECAUSE ITS OUR TAX MONEY. GOD HELP US ALL .
Popcorn is done popping. Part 2 Please! Interested to hear how the next ordinance went. Also Lois said earlier that Harl treated some business owners with disrespect, was that " Caught on Tape"?? I believe we can turn Peru Council Meetings into a Reality TV show. This could help pay for the new pool and Harls campaign signs. Just a thought.
Those people who are making such a ruckass out of changing street direction may in effect be responsible for their own loss of sales. If you continue to cry wolf as a business owner or resident, people will avoid the intersection as a potential problem. Much to do about nothing!
I don't know about anyone else but I for one cannot believe that even 1 alderman (let alone 6) would vote to approve an ordinance without even reading or seeing it. It surely does not give a citizen confidence that their representatives have their best interest at heart. And, why are we voting on an ordinance that pertains to something that has already been accomplished? What would happen if the council voted to not pass the ordinance? Would that intersection have to be put back to its' original manner? Talk about putting the cart before the horse. Are we that confident that we already know how the majority of the council is going to vote on any given issue?
1:38. I believe the phrase is much ado about nothing. In order to be crying wolf, I think you need to be saying something bad is happening when it really is not. There has been something bad happening for several weeks now, and you can't blame that on us horribly inconvenient citizens or nasty stores and restaurants. People are avoiding the intersection because they have tried it and it stinks. You may believe that we almighty naysayers cast a 24 hour a day spell on the drivers, but we actually do not have that power. In fact, the people who do have the power seem to want to say everything would be so much better if people stopped complaining. Can you step back for a second and realize how crazy that sounds? There is much to do about nothing, the nothing that represents anyone who disagrees, the nothing that is being done to change things.And the much to do is getting rid of the old guard and electing true representatives, not bosses.
Anyone who can't figure out how to navigate this intersection properly should have their license revoked for being a danger to the rest of the motoring public.
4:59 Since you are making up laws, sentences and punishments, why not just jump all the way to public executions right then and there. I like your can do attitude, your desire to ignore the real problem and focus on gettin things done, getting the citizens to fall in line. You should consider a run for council, you might get voted captain of their glee club or something. You would definitely fit right in.
Anon 8:13 AM and Anon 4:59 PM Rather than submitting myself to end up in one of your descriptions I thing I'll submit to logic and turn off of North Peoria Street south of 38th street. With people such as yourselves living in the Illinois Valley IVCH had best keep an abundant amount of rattlesnake antibiotic serum on hand.
How am I ignoring the problem when the real problem is the drivers who are so used to how the intersection was that they can't figure out what they need to do now? Your GPS may not have learned the new pattern yet, but the supreme being of your choice saw fit to bless us all with an internal processor right between our ears.
Revoking driving privileges would be excessive and was a poorly thought out statement on my part, but it would nice to at least see some tickets issued. I've been to Target, MC Sports, Dairy Queen, and the AT&T store on several different trips and managed to navigate my way back to 251 in less than 5 minutes without making a u-turn or cutting through a parking lot so it's hard for me to see what all the fuss is over.
The real problem is the fact that the design is inhibiting business. People know what they are supposed to do and they are not doing it. People are avoiding the intersection and the businesses to the north. The biggest problem is that there was a lack of communication and input from affected parties before the change. If everyone had agreed on the best solution, then perhaps, there would be more support for giving the solution a try. But it was clearly just done without input. There will be a learning curve, but there may also be casualties like continued lost sales and jobs. Those businesses wanted to have input and be heard. I am glad you are navigating it just fine and it has not affected your decision to patronize the businesses. But the FACTS are that many others are not patronizing the businesses as much. Focusing on the people who are simply ignoring the new flows is ridiculous.
Come on 2:02. Even you have to admit there is so much signage, pylons, and lines at that intersection that it looks like a puzzle. I don't think it's that people don't understand the situation I think they're just not happy with the way it's set up. It is inconvenient for those who want to get to 251 from north Venture Drive.
The pylons would be unnecessary if drivers would obey the lines at this intersection like they do at all the others in the city. The poorly located "no left turn" sign would be unnecessary for the same reason. I have a feeling the reason the businesses in that area weren't consulted is because Home Depot's new intersection design would cut off traffic to Menard's, Mi Margarita's would stop traffic to Jalepeno's and vise versa, Target would direct Wal-Mart's traffic to them and none of them would agree with each other, let alone the city's engineers.
I'm not pretending to be a traffic engineer, but how many are employed by the small businesses in that area? Home Depot and Target probably could have hired their own to examine the intersection. If lost revenue had to do with the intersection and not economical and seasonal factors, why isn't Target with Home Depot complaining about lost revenue? People still need food, clothes, and household items even when they don't have the money to landscape or redo the tile in their bathroom.
12:05 If you think these businesses are making up stories why doesn't someone consult the businesses on the other side of 251 and see if their businesses have decreased in the last 2 weeks. That would tell you whether their business decreased because of the intersection or because of the economy.
12:05 that is the most ill considered comment I have ever seen here. They were not consulted because they might not agree? Are you kidding me? Because the city fathers do not want to hear the evil businesses speak and share their plans for total market domination? Its a damn intersection that feeds their business. If they wanted to bitch and moan and disagree that is their right. You are saying that the rulers do not want all the irritating arguments and discussions from people who might disagree with them.
And how the hell do you know Target is all Peachy Keen with it? How do you know I don't possibly work for Target or that anyone else might who is in the negative camp? Some businesses have strict municipal and public communications standards. When you hear from Target it may not be a local store manager, but someone from corporate counsel or their property management division (if it determined the city has seriously impacted their sales with actions not taken in accord with the OMA). This kind of action happens all over the country, and retailers have to protect their investment and sales. They don't limit their action to blogs and they do it professionally.
Have competing businesses experienced an increase similar to the amount these businesses have decreased? Are the number transactions declining or the value/profitability of each transaction? Could that loss or gain be attributed to things such as the weather, seasonal shopping habits, and economical factors? Are competing pharmacies experiencing a large increase in prescriptions being transferred from Target? Are competing home improvement stores experiencing a large amount of new orders and new clients that previously dealt with Home Depot? Do restaurants normally experience a dip in sales when money is tight? Are area banks seeing a proportional increase in traffic to their other branches? Proof takes time. Something that resembles a trend is probably beginning to appear, but it needs to be examined further to see if there are other causes. If/when there is supporting data, it needs to be presented to the mayor and the city counsel.
Believing that my fellow residents would boycott their neighbors' businesses because of a new improvement to an intersection is a hard pill to swallow. Unemployment in La Salle County is above the state average. Many that are employed, are underemployed. Students are going back to school. Fuel prices are on the rise again. Disposable income continues to decline. Household debt continues to increase while savings continue to decrease. We have been experiencing record setting heat and below average rainfall and with it, above average utility bills and rising food prices. Maybe there is just a teansy weansy bit more to it than a new traffic pattern.
2:12 And while all of your above comments could indeed attribute to a decrease in sales would it have occurred within the last 2 weeks? The drought, the heat, unemployment, etc., etc. have been ongoing for quite some time. I do believe that the businesses that have claimed a decrease in sales are correct in attributing their losses partially because of the intersection change.
2:12 No one is saying that anyone is boycotting anything. You have a set of businesses with only two entrance / exit points. You have essentially eliminated one southern feed from the mall, eliminated one exit, crowded the other entrance/ exit , caused difficult left turns on venture southbound. In doing that you have caused a tangible reduction in convenience and opportunity trips. Yes people will still go to those stores, they simply will not take an impulse trip from many points surrounding the area.
From your long list of easily dismissed variables, I would guess you have not done many consumer retail analyses. If you do come from a retail background I only know I wouldn't hire you for our marketing department. The general variables you are bringing up apply to broad areas, these businesses have comparative data from similar communities along with history. You are trying to say business is slow because -hey times are hard. I don't think the managers are blaming that intersection for a recession. Stop trying to give the recession and weather credit for specific, measurable, data linked to one specific event. Yes, you and the pro Harl folks can feed pablum to the average person reading these blogs, but retail analysts with a little experience in complex variable analytics can see you blowing the smoke and starting the fire behind it. Don't pretend these figures lie, you can sell crazy somewhere else. Just don't do it north of the Mall. It's not a good place for retail right now.
Anon 3:40 A analytical expert you are not. But preach a good game! Us pro-Harl folks would like to ask you what are the losses at Target or the other retail place? Measurable data from the DQ or Home Depot. From the Newspaper quotes it sounds like these guys measure data much different than the average retail store. Data from a two week period is not a reliable standard.
I would not agree that data from a two week sample is inherently unable to prove anything. You examine the change and calculate the probability of the increase or decrease ( plus or minus) based on the sample size is just random. You might want to check it out with a stats teacher.
Given two major retailers with a minimum of 10 days data after an event, you can do an analysis similar to a randomized control trial in medicine, or use all their other regional stores as the control, and predict how unlikely any random variables are responsible for the drop. Of course that might not be considered proof that the intersection change is the cause. Maybe the sun just got in their eyes.
I live on the west end of Peru and take North Peoria Street. If I need a quick stop for yard supplies, a burger, toothpaste and laundry detergent once I turn right onto 38th I recall I can't go left onto Venture. So instead of doing a U-turn I go straight to Big Lots, Menards, and Wendy's.
It is actually easy to understand how the these businesses are losing money-we are a society based on convenience. The City/Mayor has changed people's shopping patterns and that is an inconvenience to constituents and businesses alike.
Kristy, If you are already on north peoria street, why would you take an indirect route like 38th st to venture to get to target and home depot? Target has an entrance on north peoria and it connects to home depots. I guess you want the burger first? What about the second trip when you already know you cant make the left?
...and if I need to go to the bank first? Of course it is just a scenario not a regular standard.
The Mayor said it is not the City's responsibility to promote the businesses back access roads from North Peoria Street. I suggested at the 10:00 meeting perhaps signage on North Peoria indicating access to the businesses or even one large sign and Mayor Harl indicated that would be the responsibility and expense of the business. So much for "signage is the key" as he quoted in the video so often. I noticed another large sign in front of Hometown Bank-curious why are service industry businesses being catered to over sales tax/large employer producing industries?
I suppose all funding from the infrastructure sales tax increase has been spent on "promoting" HIS tax increase project instead of the businesses that paid for the project.
44 comments:
Good job Kristy
Now everyone can see what a tool Harl-o is !
Did That really Happen? Did the council pass an ordinance they had no clue what they passed? Who was the idiot that asked " Did we remove stop signs?" Whoever asked that, did that same person vote yes? Obviously if he had an ordinance in front of him to read he wouldn't have to ask such stupid questions. Kristy---who was that? And Thank you for recording that. What a joke!!! and Thank you to Sherry and Rodney for not playing that stupid game of DUH!!!and voting NO for something you had no clue what was being passed.
9:35 PM
The council kind of knew what the ordinance was about but did they have the details in front of them, the answer is NO. That was Ald. Waldorf who asked that question who is on the Public Works committee which includes roads and he voted to approve the ordinance also whether he had details or not.
Mayor Harl reminded the council that he was having an ordinance drawn up on the Public Comment currently allowed for 3 minutes with no answers from either the Mayor or Council. Do you suppose that the aldermen will get a copy of that before they are expected to vote. It absolutely amazes me that the majority of the council put up with this. They should all be voting no until someone gets their act together and gives them copies before hand.
Less than one week ago the hot topic was about the OMA Act and IMFR participants who had a total compensation that exceeds $75,000 per year. There was a half page article in the Ottawa newspaper on this subject and Peru Mayor did not have the information asked for by the paper so he referred to the City Clerk who could not be reached.
What is the present status of Peru in regards to releasing this info. This Act became effective on Aug. 26, 2011.
Alderman Waldorf is not only a member but the Chairman of the public works committee and he was clueless!
Voting on unseen ordinances has been occurring for quite some time now and I have actually been collecting data on how a few ordinances may not have been written in final form as they were read and approved at the meetings over the years.
I am not certain how it is legal to vote and make something a law/enforceable if you have never read or seen the proposed ordinance in written form.
Kristy
OMGosh!!!! I'm laughing so hard I can't even believe what I just heard! That was Alderman Waldorf making a motion to pass that ordinance, then he asks what signs were removed???? This is great! What a circus. Make a motion on something you have no clue what you made a motion for, then you ask such a stupid question in public?? Oh Boy! Peru is in way worse shape than I thought.
Way to go boys.
I read the paper tonight and realized that our city council doesn't play well together. Actually, rude was the first word that came to mind. How in the heck can you vote on an ordinance and not know what it's about? And those people are called businessmen and business leaders in Peru. Oh hell, that explains why were going down the crapper one turd at a time. You all should be so proud.
10:18 PM
City Clark Bartley is back in his office and I do believe he would give the information if asked about it. I have not had time to work on it. He did say the new web design was close to completion so maybe he needs to be reminded of this but if our mayor says not, we will still have to go to city hall and collect it ourselves.
It is the principle Sherry! Good for you!
At the end of the taping there is a mocking laugh and a short vocal nursery rhyme both in a very unintelligent, nonprofessional manner which definitely were intended to insult someone or a group of someones.
This outburst appears to have come from the table on the side where the individual with the dark blue shirt is sitting and making funny faces. This person appears to be conducting his own meeting whoever he is I hope he is not a city official.
No it was just someone in the audience amused by the behavior of the council on the issues. This video was taken while sitting among many people in the audience and it was surprising there was not more "chatter" heard on it.
7:44
Actually the laughter and circus music was from me videotaping this comical episode. When you see the videos prior you may "appreciate" the satire...very few in the City knew what was going on, where signs were placed, when signs were removed or put up, what lines were painted where, who was told what, how businesses were being affected.
I originally recorded the video for a private record of how meetings are conducted but after reviewing all the videos it was decided the public should see exactly how decisions and ordinances are being determined in Peru.
Kristy
10:23 Kristy
Actually there is precedence for suing and overturning acts under violation of the OMA concerning just such actions.
"Some lawsuits are filed because the public body makes a decision at a meeting with absolutely no discussion. When it appears there should have been a public discussion, such as when the issue is controversial, members of the public sometimes assume that a meeting was held in private and discussion took place "behind closed doors," and file a lawsuit."
When council members are blindsided by ordinance that would ordinarily require extensive review and votes are taken, the appearance is that the actual decision making occurred elsewhere and as such is a violation of the OMA. Documenting the submission of proposed ordinance to all members prior to the meeting, and vigorous healthy debate in the meeting are the remedies to such lawsuits.
ANON 7;44 While that person you are referring to is apparently not the person laughing in the video you did say that he was making faces and yes, indeed he is a city official.
Playing well is for the Mother's Club at the local school or the Girl Scout troop. I like how a few of them pouted when they didn't get their way. I don't feel sorry for them, just found them to be ineffective.
The video broadcast of the city meetings is a good idea. But I bet the city officals do not want it broadcast but it will show to whoever watches it just how dumb and funny the city officials are-If you didnt know it already!
The crowd will also be enjoyable to watch.
9:28 I do believe all meetings are posted and held during a public venue located in the Deli conference room. Votes take place in the council chambers to keep it legit.
SHORT BUT SWEET KRISTY !
THE WHOLE MEETING NEEDS TO BE RECORDED ! IF THE WHOLE CITY SAW THIS THEN THEY WOULD KNOW HOW MUCH HELP PERU NEEDS ! YOU SHOULD SEND THIS TO AMERICA MOST FUNNY VIDEOS , YOUD WIN ! BUSINESS LEADERS ? YOUR KIDDING RIGHT ? YOU WOULDN'T SEE THEM DOING THAT KINDA STUFF AT THEIR BUSINESS . THEY DO IT HERE BECAUSE ITS OUR TAX MONEY.
GOD HELP US ALL .
Popcorn is done popping. Part 2 Please! Interested to hear how the next ordinance went. Also Lois said earlier that Harl treated some business owners with disrespect, was that " Caught on Tape"?? I believe we can turn Peru Council Meetings into a Reality TV show. This could help pay for the new pool and Harls campaign signs. Just a thought.
Those people who are making such a ruckass out of changing street direction may in effect be responsible for their own loss of sales. If you continue to cry wolf as a business owner or resident, people will avoid the intersection as a potential problem. Much to do about nothing!
I don't know about anyone else but I for one cannot believe that even 1 alderman (let alone 6) would vote to approve an ordinance without even reading or seeing it. It surely does not give a citizen confidence that their representatives have their best interest at heart. And, why are we voting on an ordinance that pertains to something that has already been accomplished? What would happen if the council voted to not pass the ordinance? Would that intersection have to be put back to its' original manner? Talk about putting the cart before the horse. Are we that confident that we already know how the majority of the council is going to vote on any given issue?
1:38. I believe the phrase is much ado about nothing. In order to be crying wolf, I think you need to be saying something bad is happening when it really is not. There has been something bad happening for several weeks now, and you can't blame that on us horribly inconvenient citizens or nasty stores and restaurants.
People are avoiding the intersection because they have tried it and it stinks. You may believe that we almighty naysayers cast a 24 hour a day spell on the drivers, but we actually do not have that power. In fact, the people who do have the power seem to want to say everything would be so much better if people stopped complaining. Can you step back for a second and realize how crazy that sounds?
There is much to do about nothing, the nothing that represents anyone who disagrees, the nothing that is being done to change things.And the much to do is getting rid of the old guard and electing true representatives, not bosses.
@1:38= Anon. AKA- Harl.
ANYONE WHO THINKS THAT THIS INTERSECTION IS OK IS AS DUMB AS THE IDIOTS WHO APPROVED IT!
Anyone who can't figure out how to navigate this intersection properly should have their license revoked for being a danger to the rest of the motoring public.
4:59
Since you are making up laws, sentences and punishments, why not just jump all the way to public executions right then and there. I like your can do attitude, your desire to ignore the real problem and focus on gettin things done, getting the citizens to fall in line. You should consider a run for council, you might get voted captain of their glee club or something. You would definitely fit right in.
Anon 8:13 AM and Anon 4:59 PM Rather than submitting myself to end up in one of your descriptions I thing I'll submit to logic and turn off of North Peoria Street south of 38th street. With people such as yourselves living in the Illinois Valley IVCH had best keep an abundant amount of rattlesnake antibiotic serum on hand.
How am I ignoring the problem when the real problem is the drivers who are so used to how the intersection was that they can't figure out what they need to do now? Your GPS may not have learned the new pattern yet, but the supreme being of your choice saw fit to bless us all with an internal processor right between our ears.
Revoking driving privileges would be excessive and was a poorly thought out statement on my part, but it would nice to at least see some tickets issued. I've been to Target, MC Sports, Dairy Queen, and the AT&T store on several different trips and managed to navigate my way back to 251 in less than 5 minutes without making a u-turn or cutting through a parking lot so it's hard for me to see what all the fuss is over.
2:02
The real problem is the fact that the design is inhibiting business. People know what they are supposed to do and they are not doing it. People are avoiding the intersection and the businesses to the north.
The biggest problem is that there was a lack of communication and input from affected parties before the change. If everyone had agreed on the best solution, then perhaps, there would be more support for giving the solution a try. But it was clearly just done without input.
There will be a learning curve, but there may also be casualties like continued lost sales and jobs. Those businesses wanted to have input and be heard. I am glad you are navigating it just fine and it has not affected your decision to patronize the businesses. But the FACTS are that many others are not patronizing the businesses as much. Focusing on the people who are simply ignoring the new flows is ridiculous.
Come on 2:02. Even you have to admit there is so much signage, pylons, and lines at that intersection that it looks like a puzzle. I don't think it's that people don't understand the situation I think they're just not happy with the way it's set up. It is inconvenient for those who want to get to 251 from north Venture Drive.
The pylons would be unnecessary if drivers would obey the lines at this intersection like they do at all the others in the city. The poorly located "no left turn" sign would be unnecessary for the same reason. I have a feeling the reason the businesses in that area weren't consulted is because Home Depot's new intersection design would cut off traffic to Menard's, Mi Margarita's would stop traffic to Jalepeno's and vise versa, Target would direct Wal-Mart's traffic to them and none of them would agree with each other, let alone the city's engineers.
I'm not pretending to be a traffic engineer, but how many are employed by the small businesses in that area? Home Depot and Target probably could have hired their own to examine the intersection. If lost revenue had to do with the intersection and not economical and seasonal factors, why isn't Target with Home Depot complaining about lost revenue? People still need food, clothes, and household items even when they don't have the money to landscape or redo the tile in their bathroom.
12:05 If you think these businesses are making up stories why doesn't someone consult the businesses on the other side of 251 and see if their businesses have decreased in the last 2 weeks. That would tell you whether their business decreased because of the intersection or because of the economy.
12:05 that is the most ill considered comment I have ever seen here. They were not consulted because they might not agree? Are you kidding me? Because the city fathers do not want to hear the evil businesses speak and share their plans for total market domination? Its a damn intersection that feeds their business. If they wanted to bitch and moan and disagree that is their right. You are saying that the rulers do not want all the irritating arguments and discussions from people who might disagree with them.
And how the hell do you know Target is all Peachy Keen with it? How do you know I don't possibly work for Target or that anyone else might who is in the negative camp? Some businesses have strict municipal and public communications standards. When you hear from Target it may not be a local store manager, but someone from corporate counsel or their property management division (if it determined the city has seriously impacted their sales with actions not taken in accord with the OMA). This kind of action happens all over the country, and retailers have to protect their investment and sales. They don't limit their action to blogs and they do it professionally.
Have competing businesses experienced an increase similar to the amount these businesses have decreased? Are the number transactions declining or the value/profitability of each transaction? Could that loss or gain be attributed to things such as the weather, seasonal shopping habits, and economical factors? Are competing pharmacies experiencing a large increase in prescriptions being transferred from Target? Are competing home improvement stores experiencing a large amount of new orders and new clients that previously dealt with Home Depot? Do restaurants normally experience a dip in sales when money is tight? Are area banks seeing a proportional increase in traffic to their other branches? Proof takes time. Something that resembles a trend is probably beginning to appear, but it needs to be examined further to see if there are other causes. If/when there is supporting data, it needs to be presented to the mayor and the city counsel.
Believing that my fellow residents would boycott their neighbors' businesses because of a new improvement to an intersection is a hard pill to swallow. Unemployment in La Salle County is above the state average. Many that are employed, are underemployed. Students are going back to school. Fuel prices are on the rise again. Disposable income continues to decline. Household debt continues to increase while savings continue to decrease. We have been experiencing record setting heat and below average rainfall and with it, above average utility bills and rising food prices. Maybe there is just a teansy weansy bit more to it than a new traffic pattern.
2:12 And while all of your above comments could indeed attribute to a decrease in sales would it have occurred within the last 2 weeks? The drought, the heat, unemployment, etc., etc. have been ongoing for quite some time. I do believe that the businesses that have claimed a decrease in sales are correct in attributing their losses partially because of the intersection change.
2:12
No one is saying that anyone is boycotting anything. You have a set of businesses with only two entrance / exit points. You have essentially eliminated one southern feed from the mall, eliminated one exit, crowded the other entrance/ exit , caused difficult left turns on venture southbound. In doing that you have caused a tangible reduction in convenience and opportunity trips. Yes people will still go to those stores, they simply will not take an impulse trip from many points surrounding the area.
From your long list of easily dismissed variables, I would guess you have not done many consumer retail analyses. If you do come from a retail background I only know I wouldn't hire you for our marketing department. The general variables you are bringing up apply to broad areas, these businesses have comparative data from similar communities along with history. You are trying to say business is slow because -hey times are hard. I don't think the managers are blaming that intersection for a recession. Stop trying to give the recession and weather credit for specific, measurable, data linked to one specific event. Yes, you and the pro Harl folks can feed pablum to the average person reading these blogs, but retail analysts with a little experience in complex variable analytics can see you blowing the smoke and starting the fire behind it. Don't pretend these figures lie, you can sell crazy somewhere else. Just don't do it north of the Mall. It's not a good place for retail right now.
Anon 3:40 A analytical expert you are not. But preach a good game! Us pro-Harl folks would like to ask you what are the losses at Target or the other retail place? Measurable data from the DQ or Home Depot. From the Newspaper quotes it sounds like these guys measure data much different than the average retail store. Data from a two week period is not a reliable standard.
10:39
I would not agree that data from a two week sample is inherently unable to prove anything. You examine the change and calculate the probability of the increase or decrease ( plus or minus) based on the sample size is just random. You might want to check it out with a stats teacher.
Given two major retailers with a minimum of 10 days data after an event, you can do an analysis similar to a randomized control trial in medicine, or use all their other regional stores as the control, and predict how unlikely any random variables are responsible for the drop. Of course that might not be considered proof that the intersection change is the cause. Maybe the sun just got in their eyes.
Example:
I live on the west end of Peru and take North Peoria Street. If I need a quick stop for yard supplies, a burger, toothpaste and laundry detergent once I turn right onto 38th I recall I can't go left onto Venture. So instead of doing a U-turn I go straight to Big Lots, Menards, and Wendy's.
It is actually easy to understand how the these businesses are losing money-we are a society based on convenience. The City/Mayor has changed people's shopping patterns and that is an inconvenience to constituents and businesses alike.
Kristy
Kristy,
If you are already on north peoria street, why would you take an indirect route like 38th st to venture to get to target and home depot? Target has an entrance on north peoria and it connects to home depots. I guess you want the burger first? What about the second trip when you already know you cant make the left?
...and if I need to go to the bank first? Of course it is just a scenario not a regular standard.
The Mayor said it is not the City's responsibility to promote the businesses back access roads from North Peoria Street. I suggested at the 10:00 meeting perhaps signage on North Peoria indicating access to the businesses or even one large sign and Mayor Harl indicated that would be the responsibility and expense of the business. So much for "signage is the key" as he quoted in the video so often. I noticed another large sign in front of Hometown Bank-curious why are service industry businesses being catered to over sales tax/large employer producing industries?
I suppose all funding from the infrastructure sales tax increase has been spent on "promoting" HIS tax increase project instead of the businesses that paid for the project.
Kristy
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