This blog is maintained for the sole purpose of allowing the people of Peru and those interested in the cities of the Illinois Valley to express their views.
“It doesn’t take a majority to win, just a tireless minority that will keep starting brush fires in the mind and hearts of their fellow men.” Samuel Adams
Wednesday, March 27, 2013
Agreement of Peru with Peru Twp on N. Pulaski Road
153 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Wow Lois again you continue to amaze us with the wealth of information! Living in Peru on that side of town I always wondered why Pulaski looked like a bombing run. Not the city's fault and I apologize to those people I have complained too.
The township with its amazing 6.3 miles of road cant even fix this road completely. I am going to Biederstedt's office TODAY he runs all township operations anyway since its clear in NewsTrib that current Township trustees couldnt even speak their own positions.
I was a voting Democrat after this information I am done!!! For the first time in years I will vote for the new people all of them need to go! This pretty much proves Township officials are ok with lying to public!
I know this doesn't belong here but I just finished listening to the video regarding the BB gun club (3/11/13). Alderman Mayszak asks "what were the labor costs for the building of the club"? City clerk Bartley stated that he was confident that they could come up with some kind of calculation that makes sense. He and alderman Potthoff mentioned that the labor was done by government resources (as per alderman Ankiewicz) "in kind". The definition of "in kind" donations are those donations that are done in goods and services rather than money. If the labor for this project was done "in kind" there should be no labor charges to calculate. Also, let's not forget that alderman Radke stated that because there was no snow this project gave city workers something to do.
I have called the township and they do not this document in possession- so somewhere something is mixed up- and yes the bb gun labor is a joke- who ran the operation?
Who does the Peru Government represent? Does it represent you and me or does it represent excuses for inefficiencies and legal definitions such as "in kind". Its time after all these years that Potthoff, Ankiewicz and Radke learn that bull crap stinks no matter how they package it.
10:22 That would be "in kind" labor and no I don not know if some of them worked after hours or on the weekend but I do know that a handful of them worked on the project daily.
More bb gun discussion. I was at the meeting watching the grandkid get a award, its a good program. Nobody had enough guts at the meeting to stand up and say it wasn't done right. I assume that the few alderman(Perez, Maysak) that didn't like the program have either changed their views or lacked the conviction to discuss it with real people at the meeting. Anyway it is a good program.
10:51 I do not believe anyone is doubting the program, the questions that are arising are the cost to the taxpayers. City officials never mentioned the labor costs until Alderman Mayszak asked at a meeting. This is not the transparent government that the mayor just touted on the radio. I wish they could just give honest answers, that to me is not to much to ask.
The tribe should run a story on this one, know it all leader of of the democratic Peru township, Doug B will give explaination for the committed team. Sec lost paperwork!!!! LOL
Anon 10:51 Get Real! If you want to debate a issue stay to the issue. Repeatidly it has been stated that the issue is: THE BB GUN CLUB WAS NOT GOING TO COST THE TAXPAYERS ANY MONEY. The truth is that it has cost the taxpayers alot of money and no one can find out how much. This has been one one of their goals at city council meetings to publicly ask for a labor/cost accounting of this club which should be public knowledge. It is not their goal to get into a verbal conflict with those who have come to the meeting to see their Children/Grandchildren recieve awards or anyone else. Perhaps you would inquire and upon acquiring the facts ask the BB Gun sponsor to apoligize to Alderman Mayszak for his rude and ungentlemenly behavior he conducted to her after a recent council meeting. I pardon your comments as it appears that you have not attended many Peru City Council Meetings and have not been informed of what the real problem started as and has been increase to! Upon finding out if you feel that it is still justified, would you feel this way if it was a program you were having to pay for when it was not supposed to cost you anything and no one could get a exact figure on the costs of city labor alone if your grandchild was not a participant? Keep asking Vacarro or Hylla for incompletes! Nowhere has a negative statement been made by either aldermen mentioned referring to the QUALITY of the BB Gun Program.
Because up until that point, he had been able to get everybody to go along with him and keep the spending costs undercover. All of a sudden we are finding out that it was our city workers who were doing the work which amounted to 4 weeks and I will imagine somewhere about 8 hours per day. What would you guess was the hourly wage? And an alderman dare to ask about labor costs? He had the mayor and majority of the council going along with him and gee all of a sudden someone is asking an unexpected question, how dare they.
I was at the meeting and although I cannot attest as to what Mr. Vaccaro said I can tell you that immediately upon the meeting ending he bolted out of his seat and directly approached alderman Mayszak. And, I can also attest to the fact that this body motions did indeed display animosity.
I just get sick to my stomach when I think of the grief Alderman Mayszak takes for trying to do the right thing. Remember this is not the first time a man has been rude to her. There was a meeting concerning the pickle ball problem that she got a tongue lashing from a resident. What is wrong these men from Peru. Sherry you definitely have my vote. Just keep doing what is right, and thank you for all you do.
And also remember under both circumstances Mayor Harl DID nothing and SAID nothing to defend a member of his council from an attacking citizen. Now when it comes to disciplining woman he's good at that.
Lois, at 3:19 you stated that it was 4 weeks that the city worked on the club. According to the invoices the first purchase was made on December 3rd and the last purchase was January 31st. So that is closer to 8 weeks. Could be more considering they were still making purchases on the last day of January. Just some food for thought.
It’s sad that the Peru Township democrats think they are experienced and are a committed team. The simple fact is the reformers have more knowledge how government should work. The next thing the reformers should bring out is the outrageous benefit packages the committed team gets.
___ charged the city over $150.00's for delivery of the calendars the city had printed for 2013. Over $150.00's for a in town delivery! Next year in public comment this should be brought up and a request for competitive bids be requested for the printing of 2014 calendars and all other charges such as delivery services. Calendars, delivery charges of $150.00's+, intimadation of city representation, effort to not disclose cost of labor and benefit cost to the city for BB Gun constuction. How many times does the same ___ get you before you smarten up? Look around at most city meetings and it has to come to mind that many in the audience are not there for Peru, but are there for their own interests and to protect these interests. ____ has proven _____ self to be one of them.
From nothing mentioned of city hours to 2 weekks, to 3 weeks, to 4weeks, to 8 weeks and maybe more. From Ald. Radtkes nothing to do because of no snow, to Ald. a's good use of the employees to the general acceptance of Harl, Hylla and several aldermen of "IN KIND" budgeting. Is this the up to date accounting that Hylla was bragging that him and Harl have introduced to the city in tonites paper? Thank you Alderman Mayszak for being a outstanding steward of my tax money. This administration is ridiculous!!! Sherry has the Peru businessman and BB Gun Club booster ever apoligized to you? Linda has the 1st ward alderman ever apoligized to you after his outburst at a coucncil meeting when he accussed you of "smirking" Lois has the Mayor ever apologized to you for incorrectly saying you were talking at the meeting when it was actually his loyalists sitting by you? People if you think that some things may be wrong you should have been coming to Peru City Council Meetings for the last four years. Than you would see the reasons that the camera does not record properly at all meetings. Incidently all apologies should be made at a city council meeting in front of everyone exactly how they took place. Mayor Scott Harl be a man and stand up and apologize and tell your alderman and your friend to do the same. You have lost respect of others because you have not already done so. By now maybe you want to take out a colored ad to do so in the newspaper.
Colored Ad in the newspaper. Big BUCKS. Maybe best to inquire if The Ambassador of Deer Spotting is involved (Big BUCKS). Understanding is that the Ambassador was highly upset with pickle ball and its annoying double beaked headless cap creating foreign noises in their 7 hours of athletic glory last season.
The A of DS only needs to look in the Ambassador of Pickle Ball front yard and he will become more upset. Those signs of support will prove to everyone involved with last years fiasco that the neighbors did not stand a chance against the powers that be.
8:06 The neighbors have the same case now that they had originally. If you are saying that it is clear the current admin has no regard for them, that was known long before those signs.
We will see what the results of the election are, then proceed.
And I personally do not believe the Ambassador of Pickleball could carry the Ambassador of DS's whacking stick.
i couldnt disagree more- i will admit that the financial help could be better yes- but after all that i think they are doing fine. exactly why i am voting for them- if you think art rigby or mary can do a better job you have another thing coming. thats why they have been keeping such a LOW profile.
12:25 my prediction is Mitchell Studer Bernabi and probably barky, the dems will lose seats for sure due to current behavior, I would say Ozzy will retain with debo being so silent and Nelson will beat Hocking so you will have a nice mix of newcomers
10:47 is probably Biederstedt because independents can't do worse than twp incumbents 20% increase in pay and now I read on independents website that in 2012 hocking denied 72% of general assistance claims..wonder why their are so many angry taxpayers
1225 just because Art and Mary don't have yard signs up doesn't mean they are keeping a low profile. I've got to meet them for the first time when they were asking for signatures. I never had any of the Township Democrats knock on my door? Art and Mary shown me that they care for retired people like me. They have meet with me severaI more times. I always voted democrat before but I'm voting for them. The Angry Voter article is exactly how I feel too.
art and mary never came to my door- just saying. i do agree with 214 there will be a mixture- whether the people he picked will be in or not- it will be a nice mixture
Contrary to being dead the fact is that the Treasurer refused disbursements which included the paperwork of a $1600 business transaction that is leading many down the path of disgrace and legally should keep the BB Gun issue open for a long time. As to what the alderman was offering the tresurer and the treasurer refused many are now aware that the treasurer probably knew what the paperwork contained and didn't want to face up to it. The treasurer was wiggling around so neverously that he reminded one of a cat who landed on a hot stove for the first time. ##@&*# @$%*=# ^~`% you Rodney!Funny how one issue can be pushed back to April 10th, a day after elections, and along comes another issue to increase the city snow ball. Snow Balled: Wasn't that what the lynch mob led by you know who to gang up on none other than Rod recently to get even and teach him a lesson over Operation Promise? Peru needs divine inspiration and Chas. Heston to come back and lead us into the promised land of the big bb gun club. As nice a person as he was I am sure the NRA would allow him to be budgeted on the "in Kind" line. All know that he would find something that had to be done , snow or no snow. The only thing that would surpass the last four years of this administration ia another four years of this administration and that is the last thing Peru needs.
The only democrat that survives is Ozzy just because Debo has failed to set a platform, Hocking for sure is gone and trustees are anyone's game Bernabi and Mitchell for sure rest will be very very close. If I was democrat trustee I'd push away from Hocking he is taking 90% of bad rap now and try to save myself.
I am a female so i am not whoever you want to call me- but they did not come to my door- and of course they are going to go to doors for their signatures. I have not heard or seen them since. sad.
i agree i will vote for 2 dems at this election one a trustee and one being joe- but biederstedt has to go just as the dem leader. he has done a horrific job
I agree with you in that it was not the forming of the BB gun club but simply the way it which it was handled. Number one this was nothing more than a political stunt. Apple Press, a printer of union material- I was informed,, was going to give Mayor Harl a boost by putting this club together and it needed to be done before the election to impress the residents of how much he was doing for the residents. All they needed was money and now with the rush to put together the project, it also brought up some improprieties. If we are going to promote drug awareness, we needed to reach the greatest number of young people in the city as possible. Was drug money used? I don't know but possibly they ran into difficulties with that. How honest is using city labor and not including wages in the final cost? Everything went wrong because of poor planning and poor judgement. Did the small number of kids have fun and enjoy it, absolutely.
GREG VACCARO IS NOT OUT THERE WITH HIS NOSE IN EVERYTHING UNLESS THERE IS SOMETHING IN IT FOR HIM. I DO NOT BELIEVE HE IS THE SAVIOR THAT HE PRETENDS TO BE. JUST ANOTHER GIMME GIMME GIMME WHAT DO I GET OUT OF IT?
Really now Lois. Did everthing go wrong before Sherry and Rod asked those **^%$%#$@&& ***&^^&% **@@!@* questions exposing how rotten some individuals can be with others money. They probably not only stopped the OVERLORDS of the basement construction they may have stopped several from trying to pilfer in the future. Little hands in the cookie jar have grown into big hands and small amounts of thivery such as bags of chlorine have grown into big bags of thievery. No matter what kind you call it my kind, your kind our kind or "in kind" its still stealing. By the way have the city officials pressed charges yet?
I have never had any of the current trustees at my door. The only people going around are putting a Harl and Democratic officials ads on doors. That combination is not the honesty we in Peru are looking for.
9:27 AM I think you have to go thru Greg Vacarro to get into the BB gun club. The city is only a sponsor. Of course knowing Harl would definitely help you. I hear the city workers did a fantastic job of building the room for the club.
The independents had meet and greet, what did the township dems do, nothing ever. For the first time in the history of Peru Twp the Dems are being challenged.
From the Public Property Meeting 12/12/12/ New Business Presentation by Greg Vacarro regarding proposed free BB Gun Club for kids ages 9-13 years old and will be sponsored by the Peru Police Department “Just Say No To Drugs” campaign. Greg Vacarro, Jeff Shepard and Police Chief Doug Bernabei will serve as volunteers. Alderman Ankiewicz stated that the Police Department will administrator funding and scholarship and will be held on Tuesday’s at 6:00 p.m. Committee approved the program and will present it to the Council for final approval.
and on the same date, minutes later Ald. Ankiewicz made the report from the Public Property and included that information posted above. and I did not find the council vote and don't know if there was one but will check minutes again later.
11:53 AM By being sanctioned, do you mean being approved by NRA or some other national organization? My answer would be I don't believe so but not 100% positive. I think someone asked Vacarro that question and it was answered no.
Those are the minutes of an earlier meeting which I did not go back to check, so it was probably some time in November. Minutes aren't posted until approved at the next meeting.
Public Property Committee Meeting Public Property Committee Meeting – December 12, 2012 6:30 p.m. at City Hall Present: Bob Ankiewicz, Sherry Mayszak Committee approved the November 5, 2012 minutes. New Business Presentation by Greg Vacarro regarding proposed free BB Gun Club for kids ages 9-13 years old and will be sponsored by the Peru Police Department “Just Say No To Drugs” campaign. Greg Vacarro, Jeff Shepard and Police Chief Doug Bernabei will serve as volunteers. Alderman Ankiewicz stated that the Police Department will administrator funding and scholarship and will be held on Tuesday’s at 6:00 p.m. Committee approved the program and will present it to the Council for final approval. Unfinished Business
I looked through earlier minutes and can find no mention of a BB gun club. I was at this meeting.
I was told there's still time to have a Twp debate on WPLO. The Independents and Republicans are still willing to have one. All we need are now is the Dems to call WPLO.
If this agreement is true like this letter indicates why is township not fixing road? Why is city not pressing issue? If Radtke wants our vote he needs to press it this week!! This is his biggest issue for his term now and it's 9 days to election
Ratdke is not going to push anything involving the township. I think he has a relative on that board. And besides he is no longer in ward 1, why should he care. Not that he cares about anything in ward 1.
Hard to imagine that the voters in the second ward would vote for Radtke,who has a grandfather on the twp board, which is irrelevant to his working for the first. He has no interest in anything controversial and in fact I don't know what he did for us beside have a stop sign erected at 14th and Pine St.
Alderman Mayszak asked about the disbursement for the BB Gun Club. Treasure Hylla stated that the totals are not finalized. Alderman Perez asked about the disbursement to Advanced Sanitation in the amount of $2,342.50. Alderman Perez also inquired about the BB Gun Club expenses. Alderman Perez stated that in his notes, expenses have reached over $11,000 and have not gone through any committee to be approved in accordance with the Finance Control Policy in which states any expenditure over $5,000 needs committee approval. Treasurer Hylla stated that he has been keeping a running total and stated that Alderman Perez’s numbers are not accurate and would review the numbers after the meeting.
I would imagine all of you might remember the continuing news about the BB gun club after that. No council approval was given at this point but the club was up and running.
Mr. Vaccaro of Apple Press is a Union Printer (notice those little union label on City letterhead now) and Apple Press printed the large road signs and probably candidate signs with the union printing logo.
The logo is located on signs including Harl, Lokosus, Weberski.. I wonder if the City went out for bids when they changes letterhead/printers when Harl took office?
Upon further investigation this is the information I compiled regarding the forming of the controversial BB gun club:
1. On 12/12/12 Mr. Vacarro made a presentation to the Public Property Meeting regarding his desire to form a BB gun club.
2. Permission was granted and the motion was to be sent to full council for approval.
3. The above approval was never asked for or voted on by full council.
4. If the approval for the go ahead on this club was not given until 12/12 why did Mr. Hylla's cost summary indicate supplies and tools being purchased as early as 12/3/12?
So, in conclusion, who actually gave the original go ahead for this project? Obviously it was not the Public Property committee because supplies were purchased prior to their meeting.
In addition to the 10:57 post I would like to add the following information:
According to Mr. Hylla's summary purchases for the BB gun club were made on 12/3, 12/6, 12/7, and 2 on 12/12 from Maze Lumber. Also on 12/3, 2 on 12/4, 12/6, 2 on 12/7, 12/10, 12/12 purchases were made at ACe.
Now remember, as pointed out above, approval was not given until DECEMBER 12th. So, who once again gave someone the permission to start purchasing supplies for a project that no one supposedly approved as of the starting date.
So the public property committee approved the presentation and voted to send it to full council for approval, but it never reached the aldermen,correct? Whose fault is this, and my other question is who took the minutes of the meeting where it states it should go to full council? Who is the chairman of the committee and why are the minutes not signed by who prepared them?
According to Alderman A at the public property meeting dated 12-12-12 a motion was going to be presented to full council for approval of the bb gun club. Yet at the council meeting the same night Alderman A announced the establishment of the Peru BB Gun Club but did not request that it be put on the agenda for the next council meeting to be voted on. So that tells me it was a done deal before the public property meeting that night.
Before Mr. Vaccaro was given permission to establish this BB gun club on 12/12/12 the city had already spent $195.34 at Maze and $217.94 at Ace for a total of $413.28 on a project that supposedly had not been approved yet.
I also find it interesting that donations for a club that was already a month into full swing did not begin until 1/8/13. Also interesting is that supposedly 32 donations were collected on that date. Since the money already spent on this project was obviously taken from a city fund where would one locate how much and where the donations were deposited back into said city fund.
Hocking has to go and I'm voting for 2 dem trustees and then maybe someone can run Biederstedt out...someone has to take our party back...Biederstedt thinks this is Chicago
3:56 I believe the same could be said for the so called reformers. Running a hate-filled garbage spewing campaign is not a way of getting elected. Did anyone consider general assistance spending is the way it is because there are rules to follow - money can't just be thrown out with no accountability - i want my money spent wisely not just thrown out in the streets. All the reformers can promise you for sure is that there will be plenty of lawsuits if they get in. 3:48 march 29 Art cares so much for retired persons as yourself that he is collecting an increased rate pension from imrf from the county; health insurance paid from the county and we have $500,000 of useless software sitting at the county thanks to Art. What a nice man and you think he would give his salary back?
407, Why is it so hard for people like you to accept the truth. The Reformperutwp.com gives facts from information obtained from the use of FOIA. Presenting facts is not hatefull but needed in all levels of government. The newstribe ran stories and used facts of information they obtained. If you choose to ignore the facts thats up to you. I personally know the superviser of Lasalle Twp and there are legal ways Hocking could have helped people/organizations more. Hockings is well aware what he could of done. What I say is not hate speach but fact.
As a democrat I have watched this race closely and since I live in Ottawa I can be impartial....the democrats have done ok job holding their own but they haven't shown anything new and I believe a 5% reduction in salary would have secured the win. I have also reviewed the articles all the way back from June to now along with website and Facebook page of independents and they have used facts and solid information. Using township docs was key here and even the advertising and articles have been pushing the theme. I wouldn't call their info hateful unless you are the one that could be losing your job. Politics isn't for the faint hearted and this contest is no different. Elections have changed in last 12 years and people tend to vote for change more than ever. I think Lois it will be a mixed bag here with democrats losing a couple spots and both sides should be congratulated for trying!
i heard that hocking asked the newspaper reporter that wrote the biased articles last summer to go with him to a general assistance seminar and he refused. he preferred to listen to the accusations instead of learning how general assistance is supposed to be distributed. anyone can say anything but learn what you are talking about first.
949 you may somewhat correct but Hocking should be the one to educate the public, a lot of townships today have a website that tells the public about the law and clearly spells out what is needed. TOI website clearly tells townships what they should do today. Hocking fell short of doing his job.
No one is required to have a website all one has to do is go to the township office and ask - that is what i do if i have a question whether the city or township.
401 do you know it's 2013, township secretary needs quick books too. Hand written ledgers and payroll are outdated too. Handwritten time sheets, where the time clock. 1980 has long past.
4:01 state law does require an agenda be posted before a meeting somewhere within in public viewing 24 hrs a day...where do you suggest they post their agendas Internet would be likely choice if your transparent but Peru Township continue to snuff their nose to OMA Laws because they think their above them
It interesting to read that people really believe you can walk into the township and get whatever you want to see. That is jncorrect I have visited with these independents and they have shared the difficulty with getting information from township and I believe they would have increased their salaries again this 4 years even thought the froze them for 2 if it was for this group and in a way the Independents have already helped Peru township taxpayers by getting them to freeze their salaries and you have educated us on how township runs...it will never be the same. The story that I can't believe isn't getting more support on this blog and in the news is Nelson and the other independents willingness to donate portion of their salary they receive from township and donating it to local charities. What a great idea they have locked our 5 votes for them and Studer!!
11:23 I went to toi.org (townships of illinois)website and found their download center and the topic on Townships in Crisis Mode: What can be Done. Hocking should of read the part on Survivial Options: A. Educate the public. B. Educate the Press. C. Educate Public Officials. D. Work coopertively with other units of Government. E. Strive for Peace. F. Pick your battles. G. Pay Attention to shifting public attitudes (pensions, salary increases, etc.) H. Business is Changing - Get smarter and more creative. I. Dig Fox Holes for the long Term Applications.
Ozzy has denied Pulaski street for years and he won't fix it but he will make sure joe jr get his hours and he gets a new truck this year...good luck I'm glad I live in Dimmick township
There was a Peru city meeting and it was brought up by the mayor the Peru Twp , Joe said it was the city that had to fix Pulaski, the city attorney then said he was going to look into this. WOW look at the legal doc, boys.
even if debo does put something in the paper- it is too late. he had chances to make a good campaign but didnt- based upon experience alone. Running a department at a hardware store does not qualify you to be highway commissioner. i was in debos before and literally had to pull myself away from his father due to him more or less harassing me to take a sign. Does debo even know what a right a way is? most of his signs are on them. i was on the edge but after seeing joe's article in the paper on saturday, it cemented who the right person is for the job. i am not speaking for anyone- but the concrete answers are right their.
153 comments:
Wow Lois again you continue to amaze us with the wealth of information! Living in Peru on that side of town I always wondered why Pulaski looked like a bombing run. Not the city's fault and I apologize to those people I have complained too.
The township with its amazing 6.3 miles of road cant even fix this road completely. I am going to Biederstedt's office TODAY he runs all township operations anyway since its clear in NewsTrib that current Township trustees couldnt even speak their own positions.
I was a voting Democrat after this information I am done!!! For the first time in years I will vote for the new people all of them need to go! This pretty much proves Township officials are ok with lying to public!
#5 seals the deal..Township has to maintain and repair the road..just saying it black and white now
i think the township pays the city to do it- i think
the city plows it......
i have seen city workers on that road. maybe bleck or harl can explain?
I know this doesn't belong here but I just finished listening to the video regarding the BB gun club (3/11/13). Alderman Mayszak asks "what were the labor costs for the building of the club"? City clerk Bartley stated that he was confident that they could come up with some kind of calculation that makes sense. He and alderman Potthoff mentioned that the labor was done by government resources (as per alderman Ankiewicz) "in kind". The definition of "in kind" donations are those donations that are done in goods and services rather than money. If the labor for this project was done "in kind" there should be no labor charges to calculate. Also, let's not forget that alderman Radke stated that because there was no snow this project gave city workers something to do.
i believe the alderman or some of them know about the decision between the city and township- and is the bb club even legal ?
i agree 951
721- if your not voting dem because of a road who will still dont complete know who takes care of it then you were never voting dem all along
9:51 Do you know if the city workers were there after hours or on the weekend?
I have called the township and they do not this document in possession- so somewhere something is mixed up- and yes the bb gun labor is a joke- who ran the operation?
did the workers get overtime for the bb club
Who does the Peru Government represent? Does it represent you and me or does it represent excuses for inefficiencies and legal definitions such as "in kind". Its time after all these years that Potthoff, Ankiewicz and Radke learn that bull crap stinks no matter how they package it.
10:22 That would be "in kind" labor and no I don not know if some of them worked after hours or on the weekend but I do know that a handful of them worked on the project daily.
More bb gun discussion. I was at the meeting watching the grandkid get a award, its a good program. Nobody had enough guts at the meeting to stand up and say it wasn't done right. I assume that the few alderman(Perez, Maysak) that didn't like the program have either changed their views or lacked the conviction to discuss it with real people at the meeting. Anyway it is a good program.
Good ? I duno. Is it legal!! Was it overtime?? Who sanctioned it??
10:51 I do not believe anyone is doubting the program, the questions that are arising are the cost to the taxpayers. City officials never mentioned the labor costs until Alderman Mayszak asked at a meeting. This is not the transparent government that the mayor just touted on the radio. I wish they could just give honest answers, that to me is not to much to ask.
The tribe should run a story on this one, know it all leader of of the democratic Peru township, Doug B will give explaination for the committed team. Sec lost paperwork!!!! LOL
816 your thining is wrong,
So did harl have to ok it or did the alderman or what
Did the alderman have a vote on the bb issue??????
Even if they did have a vote on the issue I can guarantee that they were not told that city employees (on city time) would do all the work.
did the alderman allow this to happen or did harl
Anon 10:51 Get Real! If you want to debate a issue stay to the issue.
Repeatidly it has been stated that the issue is: THE BB GUN CLUB WAS NOT GOING TO COST THE TAXPAYERS ANY MONEY.
The truth is that it has cost the taxpayers alot of money and no one can find out how much.
This has been one one of their goals at city council meetings to publicly ask for a labor/cost accounting of this club which should be public knowledge.
It is not their goal to get into a verbal conflict with those who have come to the meeting to see their Children/Grandchildren recieve awards or anyone else.
Perhaps you would inquire and upon acquiring the facts ask the BB Gun sponsor to apoligize to Alderman Mayszak for his rude and ungentlemenly behavior he conducted to her after a recent council meeting.
I pardon your comments as it appears that you have not attended many Peru City Council Meetings and have not been informed of what the real problem started as and has been increase to!
Upon finding out if you feel that it is still justified, would you feel this way if it was a program you were having to pay for when it was not supposed to cost you anything and no one could get a exact figure on the costs of city labor alone if your grandchild was not a participant? Keep asking Vacarro or Hylla for incompletes!
Nowhere has a negative statement been made by either aldermen mentioned referring to the QUALITY of the BB Gun Program.
How much is it costing us??
2:19 Why would one of the sponsors be rude to Alderman Mayszak, and did you witness this at the meeting?
Because up until that point, he had been able to get everybody to go along with him and keep the spending costs undercover. All of a sudden we are finding out that it was our city workers who were doing the work which amounted to 4 weeks and I will imagine somewhere about 8 hours per day. What would you guess was the hourly wage? And an alderman dare to ask about labor costs? He had the mayor and majority of the council going along with him and gee all of a sudden someone is asking an unexpected question, how dare they.
I was at the meeting, did not see the conversation but a friend did and I talked to the alderman afterward.
I was at the meeting and although I cannot attest as to what Mr. Vaccaro said I can tell you that immediately upon the meeting ending he bolted out of his seat and directly approached alderman Mayszak. And, I can also attest to the fact that this body motions did indeed display animosity.
I just get sick to my stomach when I think of the grief Alderman Mayszak takes for trying to do the right thing. Remember this is not the first time a man has been rude to her. There was a meeting concerning the pickle ball problem that she got a tongue lashing from a resident. What is wrong these men from Peru. Sherry you definitely have my vote. Just keep doing what is right, and thank you for all you do.
I heard biederstedt had to get copy from Harl because he lost it.
I know that Greg Vaccaro plays all sides so he will benefit most. Wake up!
And also remember under both circumstances Mayor Harl DID nothing and SAID nothing to defend a member of his council from an attacking citizen. Now when it comes to disciplining woman he's good at that.
Lois, at 3:19 you stated that it was 4 weeks that the city worked on the club. According to the invoices the first purchase was made on December 3rd and the last purchase was January 31st. So that is closer to 8 weeks. Could be more considering they were still making purchases on the last day of January. Just some food for thought.
It’s sad that the Peru Township democrats think they are experienced and are a committed team. The simple fact is the reformers have more knowledge how government should work. The next thing the reformers should bring out is the outrageous benefit packages the committed team gets.
___ charged the city over $150.00's for delivery of the calendars the city had printed for 2013. Over $150.00's for a in town delivery! Next year in public comment this should be brought up and a request for competitive bids be requested for the printing of 2014 calendars and all other charges such as delivery services. Calendars, delivery charges of $150.00's+, intimadation of city representation, effort to not disclose cost of labor and benefit cost to the city for BB Gun constuction. How many times does the same ___ get you before you smarten up? Look around at most city meetings and it has to come to mind that many in the audience are not there for Peru, but are there for their own interests and to protect these interests. ____ has proven _____ self to be one of them.
From nothing mentioned of city hours to 2 weekks, to 3 weeks, to 4weeks, to 8 weeks and maybe more. From Ald. Radtkes nothing to do because of no snow, to Ald. a's good use of the employees to the general acceptance of Harl, Hylla and several aldermen of "IN KIND" budgeting. Is this the up to date accounting that Hylla was bragging that him and Harl have introduced to the city in tonites paper?
Thank you Alderman Mayszak for being a outstanding steward of my tax money. This administration is ridiculous!!!
Sherry has the Peru businessman and BB Gun Club booster ever apoligized to you?
Linda has the 1st ward alderman ever apoligized to you after his outburst at a coucncil meeting when he accussed you of "smirking"
Lois has the Mayor ever apologized to you for incorrectly saying you were talking at the meeting when it was actually his loyalists sitting by you?
People if you think that some things may be wrong you should have been coming to Peru City Council Meetings for the last four years. Than you would see the reasons that the camera does not record properly at all meetings.
Incidently all apologies should be made at a city council meeting in front of everyone exactly how they took place. Mayor Scott Harl be a man and stand up and apologize and tell your alderman and your friend to do the same. You have lost respect of others because you have not already done so. By now maybe you want to take out a colored ad to do so in the newspaper.
Colored Ad in the newspaper. Big BUCKS. Maybe best to inquire if The Ambassador of Deer Spotting is involved (Big BUCKS). Understanding is that the Ambassador was highly upset with pickle ball and its annoying double beaked headless cap creating foreign noises in their 7 hours of athletic glory last season.
So did the city workers get over time??
The A of DS only needs to look in the Ambassador of Pickle Ball front yard and he will become more upset. Those signs of support will prove to everyone involved with last years fiasco that the neighbors did not stand a chance against the powers that be.
Harl's biggest mistake tying to township...Mr. Harl you have lost my vote
8:06 The neighbors have the same case now that they had originally. If you are saying that it is clear the current admin has no regard for them, that was known long before those signs.
We will see what the results of the election are, then proceed.
And I personally do not believe the Ambassador of Pickleball could carry the Ambassador of DS's whacking stick.
9:53 you will find out that the tying yourself in with the Independents may be a bigger mistake at the polls.
10:47 AM
Considering the poor behavior of the current twp members, you really need to explain your comment.
1047 the Peru Twp Dem club may hurt the party if they loose. I'm a democrat and don't like what they are doing.
i couldnt disagree more- i will admit that the financial help could be better yes- but after all that i think they are doing fine. exactly why i am voting for them- if you think art rigby or mary can do a better job you have another thing coming. thats why they have been keeping such a LOW profile.
no one answer me- who gave the ok to let the bb club be built ?
Bb club is a joke. Hidden agendas
12:25 my prediction is Mitchell Studer Bernabi and probably barky, the dems will lose seats for sure due to current behavior, I would say Ozzy will retain with debo being so silent and Nelson will beat Hocking so you will have a nice mix of newcomers
10:47 is probably Biederstedt because independents can't do worse than twp incumbents 20% increase in pay and now I read on independents website that in 2012 hocking denied 72% of general assistance claims..wonder why their are so many angry taxpayers
1225 just because Art and Mary don't have yard signs up doesn't mean they are keeping a low profile. I've got to meet them for the first time when they were asking for signatures. I never had any of the Township Democrats knock on my door? Art and Mary shown me that they care for retired people like me. They have meet with me severaI more times. I always voted democrat before but I'm voting for them. The Angry Voter article is exactly how I feel too.
art and mary never came to my door- just saying. i do agree with 214 there will be a mixture- whether the people he picked will be in or not- it will be a nice mixture
so is the bb gun issue a dead one ?
Just sayin is Joey jr. Why would they go to your door?
Contrary to being dead the fact is that the Treasurer refused disbursements which included the paperwork of a $1600 business transaction that is leading many down the path of disgrace and legally should keep the BB Gun issue open for a long time. As to what the alderman was offering the tresurer and the treasurer refused many are now aware that the treasurer probably knew what the paperwork contained and didn't want to face up to it. The treasurer was wiggling around so neverously that he reminded one of a cat who landed on a hot stove for the first time. ##@&*# @$%*=# ^~`% you Rodney!Funny how one issue can be pushed back to April 10th, a day after elections, and along comes another issue to increase the city snow ball. Snow Balled: Wasn't that what the lynch mob led by you know who to gang up on none other than Rod recently to get even and teach him a lesson over Operation Promise? Peru needs divine inspiration and Chas. Heston to come back and lead us into the promised land of the big bb gun club. As nice a person as he was I am sure the NRA would allow him to be budgeted on the "in Kind" line. All know that he would find something that had to be done , snow or no snow.
The only thing that would surpass the last four years of this administration ia another four years of this administration and that is the last thing Peru needs.
I hear a closed door meeting is scheduled. LaSalle County dems looking into the current Peru Dems. Big things coming in the near future.
The only democrat that survives is Ozzy just because Debo has failed to set a platform, Hocking for sure is gone and trustees are anyone's game Bernabi and Mitchell for sure rest will be very very close. If I was democrat trustee I'd push away from Hocking he is taking 90% of bad rap now and try to save myself.
If you can tell a person by how they type you should be a p i
As a chair person of the dems, i can say now that is false.
As democrat it's time for a new leader to step up and run things we have lost touch with our base and Biederstedt is losing traction.
I am a female so i am not whoever you want to call me- but they did not come to my door- and of course they are going to go to doors for their signatures. I have not heard or seen them since. sad.
i agree i will vote for 2 dems at this election one a trustee and one being joe- but biederstedt has to go just as the dem leader. he has done a horrific job
i agree- push away from Hocking.
that bb gun is a joke it really is . i guess i dont mind the idea just how everything was came about
I agree with you in that it was not the forming of the BB gun club but simply the way it which it was handled.
Number one this was nothing more than a political stunt. Apple Press, a printer of union material- I was informed,, was going to give Mayor Harl a boost by putting this club together and it needed to be done before the election to impress the residents of how much he was doing for the residents. All they needed was money and now with the rush to put together the project, it also brought up some improprieties. If we are going to promote drug awareness, we needed to reach the greatest number of young people in the city as possible. Was drug money used? I don't know but possibly they ran into difficulties with that. How honest is using city labor and not including wages in the final cost? Everything went wrong because of poor planning and poor judgement. Did the small number of kids have fun and enjoy it, absolutely.
GREG VACCARO IS NOT OUT THERE WITH HIS NOSE IN EVERYTHING UNLESS THERE IS SOMETHING IN IT FOR HIM. I DO NOT BELIEVE HE IS THE SAVIOR THAT HE PRETENDS TO BE. JUST ANOTHER GIMME GIMME GIMME WHAT DO I GET OUT OF IT?
Really now Lois. Did everthing go wrong before Sherry and Rod asked those **^%$%#$@&& ***&^^&% **@@!@*
questions exposing how rotten some individuals can be with others money. They probably not only stopped the OVERLORDS of the basement construction they may have stopped several from trying to pilfer in the future. Little hands in the cookie jar have grown into big hands and small amounts of thivery such as bags of chlorine have grown into big bags of thievery. No matter what kind you call it my kind, your kind our kind or "in kind" its still stealing. By the way have the city officials pressed charges yet?
Mayszak(X)
946 the dems in 45 years never came to my door. VERY SAD
Mayszak(x)
very sad for the indys too- very sad art and mary only came to get signatures then hid.
how many does the bb club hold?
How does one join the bb club- or do you have to know harl to get in ?
Strong suspicion that city officials cannot press charges because it would create a conflict of inerest
9:26 AM
I have never had any of the current trustees at my door. The only people going around are putting a Harl and Democratic officials ads on doors. That combination is not the honesty we in Peru are looking for.
9:27 AM
I think you have to go thru Greg Vacarro to get into the BB gun club. The city is only a sponsor. Of course knowing Harl would definitely help you. I hear the city workers did a fantastic job of building the room for the club.
The independents had meet and greet, what did the township dems do, nothing ever. For the first time in the history of Peru Twp the Dems are being challenged.
It's sad the dem trustees had to have Doug speak for them.
I heard the Indys wanted a Debate on WLPO and Doug said No!
How did greg become the head bb gun guy? I dont have anything against him....but the more fishy this is sounding.
11:13 And we still do not know how much labor cost us?
From the Public Property Meeting 12/12/12/
New Business
Presentation by Greg Vacarro regarding proposed free BB Gun Club for kids ages 9-13
years old and will be sponsored by the Peru Police Department “Just Say No To Drugs”
campaign. Greg Vacarro, Jeff Shepard and Police Chief Doug Bernabei will serve as
volunteers. Alderman Ankiewicz stated that the Police Department will administrator
funding and scholarship and will be held on Tuesday’s at 6:00 p.m. Committee approved
the program and will present it to the Council for final approval.
Debate for both sides were talked about. And botg were willing, but it just never amounted.
So was it even really sanctioned? This bb gun is a joke.
and on the same date, minutes later Ald. Ankiewicz made the report from the Public Property and included that information posted above.
and I did not find the council vote and don't know if there was one but will check minutes again later.
11:53 AM
By being sanctioned, do you mean being approved by NRA or some other national organization?
My answer would be I don't believe so but not 100% positive. I think someone asked Vacarro that question and it was answered no.
Lois are you sure on that date, because according to Hylla's report supplies were already purchased on December 3rd?
Is Vacarro still on the police and fire commission?
i mean who gave the ok for this period
1:10 PM
Those are the minutes of an earlier meeting which I did not go back to check, so it was probably some time in November. Minutes aren't posted until approved at the next meeting.
Public Property Committee Meeting
Public Property Committee Meeting – December 12, 2012 6:30 p.m. at City Hall
Present: Bob Ankiewicz, Sherry Mayszak
Committee approved the November 5, 2012 minutes.
New Business
Presentation by Greg Vacarro regarding proposed free BB Gun Club for kids ages 9-13
years old and will be sponsored by the Peru Police Department “Just Say No To Drugs”
campaign. Greg Vacarro, Jeff Shepard and Police Chief Doug Bernabei will serve as
volunteers. Alderman Ankiewicz stated that the Police Department will administrator
funding and scholarship and will be held on Tuesday’s at 6:00 p.m. Committee approved
the program and will present it to the Council for final approval.
Unfinished Business
I looked through earlier minutes and can find no mention of a BB gun club. I was at this meeting.
I was told there's still time to have a Twp debate on WPLO. The Independents and Republicans are still willing to have one. All we need are now is the Dems to call WPLO.
So Lois did this go before the city council?
Lois,
If this agreement is true like this letter indicates why is township not fixing road? Why is city not pressing issue? If Radtke wants our vote he needs to press it this week!! This is his biggest issue for his term now and it's 9 days to election
I heard today that Democratic Central Committee Of Peru has been reported to be in violation of campaign disclosure law.
Ratdke is not going to push anything involving the township. I think he has a relative on that board. And besides he is no longer in ward 1, why should he care. Not that he cares about anything in ward 1.
7:04 PM
Hard to imagine that the voters in the second ward would vote for Radtke,who has a grandfather on the twp board, which is irrelevant to his working for the first. He has no interest in anything controversial and in fact I don't know what he did for us beside have a stop sign erected at 14th and Pine St.
2/25/13 Council Meeting Minutes
Alderman Mayszak asked about the disbursement for the BB Gun
Club. Treasure Hylla stated that the totals are not finalized. Alderman Perez asked about the disbursement to
Advanced Sanitation in the amount of $2,342.50. Alderman Perez also inquired about the BB Gun Club expenses.
Alderman Perez stated that in his notes, expenses have reached over $11,000 and have not gone through any
committee to be approved in accordance with the Finance Control Policy in which states any expenditure over
$5,000 needs committee approval. Treasurer Hylla stated that he has been keeping a running total and stated that
Alderman Perez’s numbers are not accurate and would review the numbers after the meeting.
I would imagine all of you might remember the continuing news about the BB gun club after that. No council approval was given at this point but the club was up and running.
Wrong again 616
bb club is a joke
Mr. Vaccaro of Apple Press is a Union Printer (notice those little union label on City letterhead now) and Apple Press printed the large road signs and probably candidate signs with the union printing logo.
The logo is located on signs including Harl, Lokosus, Weberski.. I wonder if the City went out for bids when they changes letterhead/printers when Harl took office?
Did the city ever come forward with the labor cost estimates regarding the bb gun club?
Upon further investigation this is the information I compiled regarding the forming of the controversial BB gun club:
1. On 12/12/12 Mr. Vacarro made a presentation to the Public Property Meeting regarding his desire to form a BB gun club.
2. Permission was granted and the motion was to be sent to full council for approval.
3. The above approval was never asked for or voted on by full council.
4. If the approval for the go ahead on this club was not given until 12/12 why did Mr. Hylla's cost summary indicate supplies and tools being purchased as early as 12/3/12?
So, in conclusion, who actually gave the original go ahead for this project? Obviously it was not the Public Property committee because supplies were purchased prior to their meeting.
In addition to the 10:57 post I would like to add the following information:
According to Mr. Hylla's summary purchases for the BB gun club were made on 12/3, 12/6, 12/7, and 2 on 12/12 from Maze Lumber. Also on 12/3, 2 on 12/4, 12/6, 2 on 12/7, 12/10, 12/12 purchases were made at ACe.
Now remember, as pointed out above, approval was not given until DECEMBER 12th. So, who once again gave someone the permission to start purchasing supplies for a project that no one supposedly approved as of the starting date.
So the public property committee approved the presentation and voted to send it to full council for approval, but it never reached the aldermen,correct? Whose fault is this, and my other question is who took the minutes of the meeting where it states it should go to full council? Who is the chairman of the committee and why are the minutes not signed by who prepared them?
12:14 PM
The answer to your question is Ald. Robert Ankiewicz
I don't know that that rule of procedure is usually done - signature of person taking minutes.
According to Alderman A at the public property meeting dated 12-12-12 a motion was going to be presented to full council for approval of the bb gun club. Yet at the council meeting the same night Alderman A announced the establishment of the Peru BB Gun Club but did not request that it be put on the agenda for the next council meeting to be voted on. So that tells me it was a done deal before the public property meeting that night.
Before Mr. Vaccaro was given permission to establish this BB gun club on 12/12/12 the city had already spent $195.34 at Maze and $217.94 at Ace for a total of $413.28 on a project that supposedly had not been approved yet.
I also find it interesting that donations for a club that was already a month into full swing did not begin until 1/8/13. Also interesting is that supposedly 32 donations were collected on that date. Since the money already spent on this project was obviously taken from a city fund where would one locate how much and where the donations were deposited back into said city fund.
Peru Township Democratic Officials are not Professional,
are not Dedicated, and
are not Resposible.
Elect everyone but them!!!!!!
356. Hocking yes. One trustee. The rest are getting my vote
How did vacaro get power to decide on the bb club
BE CAREFUL OF VACCARO!!
Hocking has to go and I'm voting for 2 dem trustees and then maybe someone can run Biederstedt out...someone has to take our party back...Biederstedt thinks this is Chicago
Why 7:07?
He has way too much power and too many positions it will be difficult to accomplish.
Has anyone heard Studer and Mitchells ads on WLPO today?
3:56
I believe the same could be said for the so called reformers. Running a hate-filled garbage spewing campaign is not a way of getting elected. Did anyone consider general assistance spending is the way it is because there are rules to follow - money can't just be thrown out with no accountability - i want my money spent wisely not just thrown out in the streets. All the reformers can promise you for sure is that there will be plenty of lawsuits if they get in.
3:48 march 29
Art cares so much for retired persons as yourself that he is collecting an increased rate pension from imrf from the county; health insurance paid from the county and we have $500,000 of useless software sitting at the county thanks to Art. What a nice man and you think he would give his salary back?
4:07 it looks like they have backed their campaign with township documents. Seems the truth hurts.
407, Why is it so hard for people like you to accept the truth. The Reformperutwp.com gives facts from information obtained from the use of FOIA. Presenting facts is not hatefull but needed in all levels of government. The newstribe ran stories and used facts of information they obtained. If you choose to ignore the facts thats up to you. I personally know the superviser of Lasalle Twp and there are legal ways Hocking could have helped people/organizations more. Hockings is well aware what he could of done. What I say is not hate speach but fact.
Have you heard the committee to elect mike hocking failed to file appropriate financial doucuments to state?
Agree 356
As a democrat I have watched this race closely and since I live in Ottawa I can be impartial....the democrats have done ok job holding their own but they haven't shown anything new and I believe a 5% reduction in salary would have secured the win. I have also reviewed the articles all the way back from June to now along with website and Facebook page of independents and they have used facts and solid information. Using township docs was key here and even the advertising and articles have been pushing the theme. I wouldn't call their info hateful unless you are the one that could be losing your job. Politics isn't for the faint hearted and this contest is no different. Elections have changed in last 12 years and people tend to vote for change more than ever. I think Lois it will be a mixed bag here with democrats losing a couple spots and both sides should be congratulated for trying!
i heard that hocking asked the newspaper reporter that wrote the biased articles last summer to go with him to a general assistance seminar and he refused. he preferred to listen to the accusations instead of learning how general assistance is supposed to be distributed. anyone can say anything but learn what you are talking about first.
949 you may somewhat correct but Hocking should be the one to educate the public, a lot of townships today have a website that tells the public about the law and clearly spells out what is needed. TOI website clearly tells townships what they should do today. Hocking fell short of doing his job.
I still think hocking will squeak by.....
No one is required to have a website all one has to do is go to the township office and ask - that is what i do if i have a question whether the city or township.
401 do you know it's 2013, township secretary needs quick books too. Hand written ledgers and payroll are outdated too. Handwritten time sheets, where the time clock. 1980 has long past.
4:01 state law does require an agenda be posted before a meeting somewhere within in public viewing 24 hrs a day...where do you suggest they post their agendas Internet would be likely choice if your transparent but Peru Township continue to snuff their nose to OMA Laws because they think their above them
It interesting to read that people really believe you can walk into the township and get whatever you want to see. That is jncorrect I have visited with these independents and they have shared the difficulty with getting information from township and I believe they would have increased their salaries again this 4 years even thought the froze them for 2 if it was for this group and in a way the Independents have already helped Peru township taxpayers by getting them to freeze their salaries and you have educated us on how township runs...it will never be the same. The story that I can't believe isn't getting more support on this blog and in the news is Nelson and the other independents willingness to donate portion of their salary they receive from township and donating it to local charities. What a great idea they have locked our 5 votes for them and Studer!!
704 thats not enough to re elect someone just saying.
When is Big Joe going to fix Pulaski Street? Blame game is over. If Debo wins will he fix it?
Voter wants to know.
Ozzy's N/T add looked good. No mention if he is going to repair Pulaski Street. Debo should challenge Ozzy on this issue.
As i spoke with joe or ozzy as some people call him he is prepared to take prepared to repair it
I do belive joe has stated he will solve the pulaski st issue
Bb gun is a dead issue to me. What a joke that was
11:23 I went to toi.org (townships of illinois)website and found their download center and the topic on Townships in Crisis Mode: What can be Done. Hocking should of read the part on Survivial Options:
A. Educate the public. B. Educate the Press. C. Educate Public Officials. D. Work coopertively with other units of Government. E. Strive for Peace. F. Pick your battles. G. Pay Attention to shifting public attitudes (pensions, salary increases, etc.) H. Business is Changing - Get smarter and more creative. I. Dig Fox Holes for the long Term Applications.
Ozzy has denied Pulaski street for years and he won't fix it but he will make sure joe jr get his hours and he gets a new truck this year...good luck I'm glad I live in Dimmick township
false again 1233- you should worry about your dad losing
1233- enough with the false statements.
lame 1233
There was a Peru city meeting and it was brought up by the mayor the Peru Twp , Joe said it was the city that had to fix Pulaski, the city attorney then said he was going to look into this. WOW look at the legal doc, boys.
The city dont know anythng so leave it at that. Especially harl
Debo will win hands down, heard this will be in paper on Monday.
I voted for Debo time for young fresh start and I think it will be very close!
(X) Debo
1:53 & 4:13 my dad isn't running for anything, just sayin
( x) oscepinski.
Definately joe. And i dont think it will be close
even if debo does put something in the paper- it is too late. he had chances to make a good campaign but didnt- based upon experience alone. Running a department at a hardware store does not qualify you to be highway commissioner. i was in debos before and literally had to pull myself away from his father due to him more or less harassing me to take a sign. Does debo even know what a right a way is? most of his signs are on them. i was on the edge but after seeing joe's article in the paper on saturday, it cemented who the right person is for the job. i am not speaking for anyone- but the concrete answers are right their.
(X)joe
heard that also 11:48
what time is the forum today
10:38 AM
Library doors open at 1 PM
DEBATE Begins at 1:30 PM
ty much
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