Those of us who were interested in actually seeing the structural deterioration of the Peru Swimming Pool were given the opportunity this evening when Mayor Harl allowed a walk through the non compliant bath house with regard to ADA plus see the code violations in the bathhouse and in the pool itself.
Mayor Harl showed the places where there is a void beneath the concrete using a chain to produce different sounds that you hear when the area is solid versus an empty space. Kind of like tapping on a wall to find where there are studs and where empty space. Being right close to the structure shows the severe damage that has been happening, the weeds growing in the concrete and in some places you put your hand through an damaged area and bring up sand.
Of the Peru alderman the only ones present were Wren and Potthoff and if your alderman is not one of those two, he chose not to be present. So the non present councilmen will probably continue to vote on what they imagine and not what they actually see. Instead of cracked concrete with voids beneath it and violations to numerous to mentions here they envision laughing children playing and splashing in the water filled pool thanking them for the pool. The problem is that these children depend upon rational adult elected officials to make good decisions based on safety and to make that their priority.
"Thee are none so blind as those who refuse to see"
46 comments:
I was amazed at the number of voids detected in the pool yet my alderman, who was not in attendance, insists there are no voids.
How sad that at least one alderman from each ward was not present tonight.
No experienced professional "subject" experts were present!, what a shame. Easily swayed public , without building knowledge, whom already had there mind made up were present.
Please explain to me 9:58PM how much professional expertise our aldermen have. You know the "too smart" ones that don't need to see to know. It may surprise you to know that many of those present have accrued more knowledge on pool construction than you can even imagine. I can guarantee that this has been a learning experience for the last 4 months.
Just remember that the pros have already given their opinion to the city and one aldermen told them that their report was full of errors and in effect said he knew more than they did.
It appears that the majority (not all) of our aldermen feel that they know more than everybody and anybody. They won't even listen to citizens without being sarcastic and rude. My question to them is why did they neglect the pool all these years?
I would like to propose that all those citizens, Peru city employees or others who continue to express the sentiment that the pool is safe be given the option to either purchase or lease the pool and to invest their own money. They can then repair the pool and take total responsibility for whatever takes place there.
Those that come to mind that might be interested would of course be the 6 or 7 aldermen who continue to say it is safe, Roger Chamlin who has also publicly stated before and after the Williams study that the pool is safe and of course Ken Drennan who advocates opening the pool. All of those people can pool their money and show all of us that this is indeed a safe pool. The City will no longer be a party to it and the previously mentioned people can then put their money where their mouth is and everyone else will back off and let be.
Lois can you answer this question or give direction as to who can, does the City of Peru have an employee that is certified or trained for pool inspection? I know Mr. Drennan does work on the pool but my question is what are his credentials? Has he attended classes, seminars, conferences to learn and gain knowledge about maintaing the pool and gain knowledge to the rules, regs and laws of operating a pool?
Why are we stilling talking about the pool? its over. the pool is not opening. we get it. Lois, you won.
My answer to ANON 11:28 would be NO. My reason would be that if we did we would have records on file documenting inspections, maintenance, code certifications, etc. We have no records on anything regarding this pool. Doesn't anyone find that strange? Yet, we have people insinuating tests were done, pipes were checked, pool has 3 bases, but - NO PROOF!
Drennan s a certified pool technician for lack of a better word. He has studied and taken tests provided by the state regarding the maintenance of keeping the pool running. This would include the machinery and equipment and the chemicals used in the pool water.
Other than that I am not sure of his knowledge of pool regulations, permits and etc.
12:19 PM
It wasn't a matter of winning or losing but of providing enough information to possible users of the pool for them to make their own choices. The legal implications provided by the city atty and our insurance provider should have been the final answer. We were informed that if someone filed a complaint about the ADA non compliance they would win without a doubt.
I just finished reading the News Tribune and saw that Kristy Mrowicki spoke at the meeting last night about the danger she encountered with the sewer cover. I do admire her ability to speak out on issues that she feels are a safety issue in the city. Kristy if you are reading this please on the behalf of all the kids in Peru, please get the aldermen to understand the safety issue regarding the pool. Thank you.
Anon 12:11 We are still talking about the pool because it still seems to be an issue. Once the voters decide in November what they want done, then all the talking will be over. Until then, it will continue to be a topic of discussion.
Lois,
If I understand this correctly a majority of the Aldermen are saying that the pool is safe and we need to patch, paint and open the pool. The same aldermen that voted for the Mirror building and the New City Building. Well we know how that is going. I know whom I will be backing in this situation. I know my 2 aldermen were not present lastnight and will not be receiving my support in the future. The only time I see them is during an election year.
I would like to remind some of the people who comment on this blog to remain courteous and respectful in their comments. I will NOT publish those that are not. So if you are someone who notices that you do not see what you have written as a comment, that is the reason why.
It is obvious. The pool needs to be closed and demolished. All this talk is for not.
We cannot afford to fix the pool. We cannot afford to build a pool. We cannot afford ANY nonessential expenditure.
Last night, the council voted to give the executive branch a free pass to raid any city account to make payroll.
“The council approved an ordinance to transfer up to $150,000 from any department to payroll, as needed, with approval of any two of the mayor, city clerk, and treasurer, and any one council representative on the finance committee.”
Brian,
This was brought up by Ald. Mikyska (finance committee chairman) last week when the council found out they there was not enough money in the General Fund to pay bills. It seems that there is never enough money in the GF to cover expenses. Also seems that the council is tired of having to go through the approval process each time before the bills can be paid. At least Ald. Potthoff brought up the suggestion that unless it only pertained to payroll, he would oppose the motion. At that point they did reach a consensus that only for payroll would they reach into other departments funds and I am sure it will always be the electric dept. funds.
To Lois 7:59pm
So what you are saying is that if anyone disagree's with your bias point of view, you say it is not respectful and you will not publish it.
Well, what else would I expect, a one sided blog.
No that is not what I am saying. You can disagree with me and others but just do it with some respect. Comments that are only written bashing people and have no other valid points are the kind of posts I am referring to. I have been commenting to people that I have been amazed at how considerate and intelligent posts have been for the 4 months the blog has been online and during the time, I did publish everything that was sent in. All points of view were well represented. It is just in the last 2 or 3 days, there have been what I call "ugly" and pointless comments that only served to deride individuals. I would like to have an intelligent conversation and especially with those I don't agree with. I hope you understand that.
To Lois 10:18PM
I understand what you are saying but if you want to make sure ALL issues from ALL points of view are put on the table, you need to publish ALL of the comments or you will NEVER understand what is truly on peoples minds until the next election. Then It will be to late once defeated at the polls.
Kristy , I believe started this blog conversation and was true to All Points of view. Good for Her..
10:18PM
I wrote with Kristy for a time and there were times when posts were not put on the blog, that I know for sure and it was the derogatory purposeless ones that I feel the same about.
But I am going to add a caveat to my previous decision and say if your comments come in with you name attached it will published. You may be surprised I find that people are offended when reading mean and purposeless posts and I know that because I have been told.
By the way, this is a different blog and Kristy still has hers but it is closed at this time.
Brian - I'm pretty sure the actual text of that ordinance does not use the word "raid". But I get where you're coming from. Sad to say they continue to have difficulty paying the bills on time and making payroll. You should at least give the executive officials credit for bringing it up in open meeting for discussion. Alderman Potthoff used the occasion to try to insinuate that the Mayor, City Clerk, or Treasurer were attempting to pull a fast one. Just as you have in your comment. Fact is, they are being open and honest in presenting the council the truth about the financial condition of the city. Difficulty making payroll and paying the bills in Peru goes back well into the Don and Judy era. This is a well known fact among the insiders. I have memos from Don to all department heads pleading with them to curtail their spending as, and I quote, "We are having trouble paying bills and making payroll."
So what are the real differences between the two administrations? Don and Judy moved money around between funds on a regular basis. They cashed in CD's at will whenever they needed to prop up an ailing fund, which was often. They also took cash when they could to purchase CD's without any oversight or input from any committee or any individual, EVER. No council approval! No committee approval! No citizen approval! What pisses me off more than anything is the absolute hypocracy of some of these aldermen who knew that Don and Judy were operating without any approval from the council and they never uttered a word of protest or inquired about who was making the financial decisions. Some of these aldermen knew exactly what was going on and did nothing to bring it out into the open. The others simply buried their heads in the sand and did not want to know. Either way it was unacceptable behavior for elected officials.
The previous administration put more emphasis on creating the appearance of prosperity instead of actually practicing the fiscal responsibility required to achieve real prosperity.
To
Steve 9:54am
So what is your point? Does the problem go away now that this adminstration broadcasts the message to everyone. Now the dirty laundry is hanging openly for everyone to see. Thats Great !
What is being done about bringing in more jobs/business to obtain the tax revenue to pay all of the city bills? (Look around the city, building emptyness means what ? To me a start of Ghost town.)
What are you doing in this blog to help advertise more tax revenue for the city of peru. All I hear from you is that , wow we are NOW open and have transparent government.
Well my dear Sir, I beg your pardon . You better look again and begin to defend what has been going on this past year in the way of wasteful spending. For starters, look at all of the wasted youth energy we are paying for in the summer help. Have you looked at the work done and the quality of that workmanship? It stinks whatever we are paying them.
A TOTAL WASTE OF MONEY only to look good by this Mayor because folks complained about the lack of summer jobs in the city and fact he alone has decided to close the pool. After all the kids who DID WORK IN THE PAST SUMMERS do NOT HAVE A JOB THIS YEAR BECAUSE OF THE PROMISES MADE BY THE MAYOR TO THE PAST POOL KIDS. This sounds like hypocrisy 101 !
Lets see, Pool closed results in No summer jobs and lack of revenue for upkeep. Great business savy ! (Sure Glad the election results are in)
Lets not whitewash the issues as rose colored.
I will only comment on your last comment which is so far out of line,it makes NO sense. We were keeping the pool open all these years so kids in Peru could have a job. Get with it!
The pool was closed because it is an unsafe environment. Period! End of pool conversation. It was not built to provide summer jobs. Let the kids who were so lucky to have had a pool job do what the rest of the kids in this town do. How many kids in the IV go corn detasseling for a few extra bucks because their parents were not connected so they could get a pool job.
11:02 - The point is clear. Open and Honest is preferable to secretive and dishonest. Which do you prefer? If you see it as dirty laundry then you might wish the truth was still hidden from the people. What we don't know can't hurt us right?
Until we get the foreclosure notice on the Mirror Building.
Next point. This blog is not here to create jobs and sales tax revenue. (Read the Mission Statement). That responsibility falls on every elected officials in any community. From the mayor on down. If you want an answer to that you need to ask one of them.
Do you really think considering the job skills and work ethic of teenagers is an accurate indicator of anything. Have you had any experience with teenagers? Consider this. This is what I know about the summer help program. This is the first time for all of the following. First time numbers of hires was actually reduced. First time a formal application and screening process was used to ensure fairness to all who applied. First time wages were actually cut back intstead of increased for summer help. First time adult supervision was ever hired to attempt some sort of organization and productuion from the kids.
These reforms are the initiative of Mayor Harl and Supervisors Gary Bleck and Jim Potthoff.
It's a step in the right direction.
Steve: Great articile, its about time the people in Peru, realize the goings on between the clerk and Mayor Baker, the aldermen, never knew what what going on. Before Harl they never had a say in anything, Now they won't work with the new Mayor, because he doesn't hide anything. He brings everything out in the open for everyone to see. some people can't, take it.
To Steve 12:22 and Anon 1:26
I think we need to check the contents of the water in the city of peru. I wonder why you both are distorting the facts and want to convince yourself that we are better off today rather prior to the recent election. WOW I bet (based on what I hear in town) the people of peru can see through your stated smoke screen.
2:09PM
FYI Nobody drinks the water in Peru! Yuk, the smell is bad enough when you turn on the faucet let alone drink it.
Most of us are drinking purified water so if you are drinking it along with Jack O'Beirne that explains why you think like you do. Why do I mention the aldermen, it is because I put the question to him one time and he said "yes" to my question.
The point of my post on 6/8 at 8:17 was not to condemn or praise the past administration or the current administration.
I had two main points and one minor point. Main Point number 1: The financial situation the city faces precludes additional spending on recreation. At this point is time it is not prudent to repair the pool or build a new one. Continued talk about "what to do about the pool" is pointless. I feel the brouhaha on ALL sides of this issue is purely political.
Main point number 2: I disagree with the decision to allow the executive the ability to move and spend funds without a full council vote. I don't care if the authority comes from a nod and a wink or an ordinance. Either way it is wrong.
Minor Point: While our current mayor, clerk, and treasurer may be well intentioned, what happens 10 years from now? Our council needs to start thinking to the future, not living in the past. We need an agenda for the future. To achieve this will require some belt-tightening now.
Brian,
I have to think that since the idea was brought up by an alderman, it would have been passed without the Mayor's endorsement but then he did give it his OK, so it does make everybody a part of the possible future problem.
If a referendum for the pool happens, who has to approve the process to move forward ? Is it the city council that needs to approve such action ?
Secondly, rather then ask the people of the city to pay any increases in taxes, why not just have a "fund raiser" and let the participants of the fund pay for a pool.
Frankly any action other then "patch and repair" will need a "Return on Investment"study. I remember how Mayor Harl , before his election, insisted the previous adminstration to perform before spending any capital projects.;
Are we going to live by this request to have an "ROI" or do we have now a different standard?
There is no acceptable financial outcome based on the current revenue generated by the pool.
Folks that means NO POOL IN THE FUTURE.
10:27 - I have to assume you're referring to the "Cost vs. Benefit" analysis that Harl suggested prior to building the new Municipal Building. That of course was never done because they knew an honest study could never justify a new building.
I have never heard of a Return on Investment study in the Public Sector. I think you're doing some creative writing with this "ROI".
I would encourage a Cost/Benefit analysis before any capital project. I believe the mayor would as well. The problem with that will be as follows. That study would have to be done by a professional consulting firm and it will certainly cost money to place a value on all those "hypothetical" soggy smiling little faces frollicking in a new or renovated public swimming pool. Do you think this current "gang of seven" is ever going to agree to hire another consultant after their recent learning experience of what a bonified consulting firm actually does. I can just hear O'Beirne squealing out loud "Dem consultants aint dun nuttin for da money we pay em and I aint gunna go dair again".
I suspect you are well aware that there are probably few if any public recreation facilities, (Parks, Sports fields, Open Spaces, Bike Trails, Walking Paths etc.), in the U.S. that are able to turn a profit. I would be shocked if any publicly owned swimming faciity anywhere takes in enough cash to pay for the chlorine alone.
If the litmus test on providing any public recreation were based on your ROI study, the entire publicly owned recreation system we now enjoy would soon cease to exist.
To steve 10:09am
Your Response of investment analysis is obvious one of ignorance to accomplishing the task. The ROI is done by accountants or treasurer.
Once again you are talking without knowing what the meaning of spending and getting a return on that capital expenditure. I very much NOW based on your comment, the Mayor also DOES NOT KNOW WHAT A ROI is or how to measure a return on the captial expenditure.
Here is another case of why we need a educated person with a business background to run this city.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with getting a return on any dollars the city spends. If there is not value to spending the money, then why in the world would you spend the money.
Do you spend money personally &get no value for the money you spend? If your answer is yes, stay away from the city books.
10:09 AM
Just briefly I will tell you what ALL the sitting council members including the Mayor say about recreation in the city.
"It is not meant to make money"
I heard that every time a baseball field was repaired and at one time, it was the swimming pool being worked on or the tennis courts. I do agree with their comment when it is to the benefit of the people here in Peru. That is why you spend the money on something the residents use and enjoy, not to make a return on your investment but to add to the pleasantries of living in this town.
The city government does not exist solely to make money, nice if it happens because of some improvements you have made or perhaps infrastructure improvements to hopefully bring in jobs. Just like the sewer and water extensions up the Plank Road, we have no assurance of any return on our investment. At this point it is debatable whether we should have done it or not.
As to your remark about getting an educated person with a business background to run the city, why don't you start by finding some of those people to run for our city council where decisions are actually made. Election coming up next year, do you happen to have 4 people in mind?
Didn't we just not re elect a business person to run this city because he put us 40 mil in debt?
Our last Mayor did run a business, where have you been?
To all:
My understanding about the talk of $40 Mil in debt is basically VOODOO numbers. The city is NOT in debt.
(Check the last Bond Rating for the city)
The point is that, We do not have tax revenue to pay for the wasteful spending currently going on.
Did anybody ask a question of the pool summer help now working for the city, how many hours did they work for the pool last year versus today, now how many hours are they working on , lets see, make shift work, Like pulling staples out of telephone polls. (Ask Kristy )
Ridiculous . Good Management by this Mayor.
I guess there is some support for the Mayor and this kind of wastefullness.(cliche system) But for me I would like to see a bit more accountability for the $30,000 salary we are paying.
I can't do anything about yesterday but surely I will change the future and be heard. Watch !
Steve, nice to see you writing again. Even though we disagree you are an intelligent, creative writter. Keep up the good work. Lois, you are so biased it's ridiculouis. Williams Brother gave two options. Close the pool, or bring it up to code and open it. Read the report. No voids, no safety issues for kids. Fix than and open. Quit being one sided. As for finances, the electric department has supported the city for decades. Quit the whining every time money is transfered. It's either that or raise taxes or rates or create a new tax. The city is fine. The city has over $20 milion in reserves and over $100 million in assets to pay the $40 million in debt. Read the treasures report to find this info. Quit making crap up to discredit the aldermen. It's not true. Sale tax is up $21k this month and will continue to rise. The alderman and the mayor , along with the clerk and treasurer, helped get the city thru this downturn. Together. The mayor and alderman agree in 99% of the issues but you pound on the 1% of disagreements to discredit all the aldermen. That's why we have many elected officials.if everyone was of one mind, we would only need one person to run the city. You want open government and you have it. 9 open ended minds to work things out. The mayor is right on some. The aldermen are right on some. Quit being biased towards the mayor on everything. $15k for soil samples and we pull out a chain to "listen" to pitches? Come'on. The alderman ask for an expert opinion on generators and they are fools. The mayor ask for an expert opinion on the pool and the aldermen are fools? Two-faced. Many promises were made over one year ago. More funding for the library without raising taxes? No. End the practice of no bid contracts? Not for the generators. Improve and expand our park and recreation facilities? No.
Broadcasting city council meetings? No. Annual "State of the City" address? No. A brighter future? Not yet. Lois, I honestly believe you are blind to reality. It' Time to look in the mirror.
FYI I have read ALL the reports and attended all the meetings that Williams Aquatics came to Peru for and they are not brothers. Just might be that I know a little more than you do. And yes they did say there were safety issues and that we should consult with out city atty for legal advice about liability issues. Atty said we should not open the pool, insurance consultant said same. What more do you want?
I agree we should be broadcasting meetings and have asked numerous times and there seems to be a timeline but it needs to be done NOW.
All the other comments you have made have already been discussed.
Believe me I am not blind to reality although I think you have told me that before.
Atty and Insurance consultant BOTH said in current conditions. Same as Williams. FIX IT as Williams said. It's many dollars less than $4 million. Open your ears and eyes.
"Just might be that I know a little more than you do."
Prove it. Be an independent thinker and not an anti-aldermen rant. Each of the aldermen were elected by the people. You elected yourself.
Williams will soon be bringing in their final report, I suggest we all wait for that. You know as well as I do that the city will not repair unless we get a windfall of money.
As far as I know blogging is not electing yourself to anything.
And I judge each aldermen on what they do or don't do and how well they are representing the people they were elected to represent. Pure and simple and nothing more. They are all old enough to stand on their own 2 feet and defend themselves if they don't believe they are being judged fairly.
I have not heard anything from them in person or otherwise.
I also judge the aldermen on what they do or don't do. And most of the time, they don't listen to the people, who voted them in. You can't really talk to them, they get upset if you ask a question at the meetings. You can't get them by phone, maybe a couple of days later they might call you back. I'm sorry but I think we need at least 7 new aldermen, when they come up for reelection.
Great for Anon 11:39 & 12:36
Lets all wait for the final report. But thank God there are others that think the same, Lois get off your pedistal.
No one aldermen is holding to you either in person or otherwise. Remember it is "WE THE PEOPLE".
Looks like Lois you may have putting a DIFFERENT interpretation of the documents in this biased blog!
Is that true ? Does the English words in the document have different meanings to you that will affect my pocket book adversely?
There is an old saying that " there are three sides to a story, your side, my side, and the correct side".
Lois , which side(view) is yours ?
Anonymous 5:21 pm June 10th
You wrote this quote below:
My understanding about the talk of $40 Mil in debt is basically VOODOO numbers. The city is NOT in debt. (Check the last Bond Rating for the city)
Your understanding? That explains everything.
You do NOT understand anything.
This Blog has posted in detail where any resident can find the debt numbers.
The debt has been verified by the City Treasurer and Auditor in Public Meetings.
The Alderman did NOT disagree to the $40 Million debt figure at 2 separate meetings.
Please go away and stop with your stupid “understanding”.
ANON 9:47 Your comments have been accepted and posted by Lois. She may or may not agree with you but she has let you voice your opinion. I personally find it offensive the way you criticize her. I also find your use of grammar disgraceful.
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