Secrecy doesn't sit well with many Americans. As President John F. Kennedy said, “The very word, secrecy, is repugnant in a free and open society, and we are as a people, inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings.”
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35 comments:
You are amazing, Lois. I'm amazed at what you find and all the research you do. Keep up the great work you are doing keeping us all informed!!
Thanks and thanks to our great FOIA person in the city clerk's office.
I do believe the sessions called Municipal Utility have to do with the demolition of the old power plant on Water St.
Now this is more serious topic and I will be sharing with all my friends...city politics and government action have direct effect on citizens keep the pressure on these fools.
Why are the results of these closed sessions never revealed? Surely some of them must be resolved by now!
I'm flabbergasted. The newstribune and the Ottawa times nerds to share this information in an article!!!!! What caught my attention is APPOINTMENTS AND COMPENSATION. Is all those appointments for department heads appointed by Mayor Harl??? That in my opinion is wrong and sneaky politics. We need more info. Call newspapers so taxpayers and citizens can be informed. FROM MY MATHAMATICAL SKILLS THIS FAR EXCEEDS MORE THAN ONE A MONTH. THIS IS SO WRONG! Wouldn't it be interesting to have this front page headlines?
How many closed sessions for the
Same amount of months in Mayor Baker's term? Compare to same amount disclosed above. This is perplexing. There is only one logical reason for such a hugh amount of closed sessions. WE NEED A CHANGE IN GOVERNMENT IN PERU.
City of Peru officials are all a joke!
Because as 4:29 Dec 7, 2012 states in the topic directly before this topic, what better way to keep the general public from knowing what is being discussed than to call a closed session. Whatever is discussed in a closed session cannot be discussed in a regular city council meeting which has a audience of citizens nor can it be revealed to them in general conversation. "Closed Session" can be manipulated into a very sophistacated game of "I've Got a Secret", and nobody can tell what it is!
There are many instances where closed session are appropriate. Read about the OMA on the AG FAQ section and what issues are allowed to be closed session.
If you believe any of these sessions should not be allowed under the OMA, do something about it.
I would think any of the litigation sessions should eventually be released, especially if the litigation is no longer pending or was resolved.
Keep in mind that many things, especially those regarding employment or litigation, *must* be discussed in closed session. In the past, many municipalities had few official closed sessions because they simply discussed those matters illegally outside of any official meeting.
It would be interesting to be able to compare our city against another of similar size, in order to put this list in its proper perspective. Did LaSalle, Princeton or Streator have this many closed meetings?
Anon 2:59 What are you suggesting when you say do something about it. You don't seem to understand the issue. There have been 46 closed sessions of the city council and 5 closed sessions of the finance committee and at best only two out of 51 have been disclosed. Why have there been 51 closed sessions in 3 1/2 years when there haven't been near that many in the first 175 years of Peru. You would think and I would think but thats just it you and I think but it ain't happening!
5:01
What I mean by it is...
Follow the steps outlined in the AG guidelines. If you have an issue with any closed session, the procedures are clearly outlined. When I say take action, that is what I mean.
I understand the issue. Even comparing to similar sized cities may or may not be relevant. One court case could span several months, causing many closed sessions . Some towns run into such issues, some do not.
I think you could ask for any closed session meeting minutes to be released after a certain period of time. The worst that they can say is no.
There are steps that can be taken.
The word litigation means nothing or it could mean a great deal but the people of Peru have no way of knowing whether this is one case or many. For certain most have not even been mentioned in public council meetings except for the last one regarding the house that had fire damage. Is there a way of determining how many court cases the city is in involved in? Maybe research at the county court house?
That is an excellent point Lois. I am unsure if the general purpose of the closed session is subject to release and full disclosure. Also, I would think once litigation is finished the sessions could be released. I would think that if there was a lawsuit filed against the city , that should be a matter of public record. The details discussed could take place in closed session of course.
But I would think the subject of closed session would be available in FOIA request.
It is my understanding that once litigation has been settled and approved that the results of the closed session should be released to the general public. Is this true?
Might provide some insight. Taken from Sunshine site.
Here are some reasons for closed sessions that are allowed in Illinois.
Common Executive Session Exemptions
Personal Privacy(Including Employees)
Attorny-Client Priviledge/Litigation
Security/Police Information
Purchase or Sale of Property
Union Negotiations
Licensing Exams/
No final action may be taken during an executive sessions. A public body can hold closed executive session with a majority of vote for the following reasons:
The appointment, employment, compensation, discipline, performance, or dismissal of specific employees of the public body or legal counsel for the public body, including hearing testimony on a complaint lodged against an employee of the public body or against legal counsel for the public body to determine its validity.
Negotiating matters such as salary, the buying or selling of public land, the buying or selling of security or investment contracts, anything related to individual students that would harm if publicly disclosed, selection of a person to fill a vacancy in a public office when the body has that power, sensitive evidence from a pending case, matters related to the Prisoner Review Board, informant sources, deliberations of the State Emergency Medical Services Disciplinary Review Board, complaints of discrimination, discussing electricity or natural gas contracts, and security procedures.
Sensitive material related to pending litigation
The establishment of reserves or settlement of claims if it would prejudiced if publicly disclosed.
Professional ethics or performance when considered by an advisory body appointed to advise a licensing or regulatory agency on matters germane to the advisory body's field of competence.
Self evaluation when a statewide entity is present.
The recruitment, credentialing, discipline or formal peer review of physicians or other health care professionals for a hospital, or other institution providing medical care, that is operated by the public body.
Discussion of confidential matters, of meeting minutes for approval by the body or semi‑annual review, and of applications received under the Experimental Organ Transplantation Procedures Act.
Meetings where a team would be determining assault or wrongful death at a residential health care facility.
Periodically, a public body must convene and determine if the material and minutes of executive sessions still required confidentiality. If not, the public body is obligated to open those records to the public.
Secrets and lies, that's what Peru thinks of its citizens. All they do is talk about his to screw over their employees and citizens and line their pockets. They say they want our input and all they do is shut us out and ignore us. Screw you King Harl !!
SOMEONE SHOULD CALL THE NEWS TRIBUNE AND
OTTAWA TIMES SO THEY CAN PUBLISH A STORY ABOUT ALL THESE CLOSED SESSION MEETINGS. THE OLDER CITIZENS WHO DON'T HAVE COMPUTERS STILL READ THE PAPERS, THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON IN PERU COUNCIL CHAMBERS. THEY HAVE PAID THEIR TAXES FOR YEARS AND NEED TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON!
1:32 You can scream and shout in caps all you want but closed sessions are allowed and acceptable in many instances, as the post above explain. The city SHOULD protect individuals with executive session and has every right to protect itself in litigation discussion.
It is only being secretive if there was no need to keep the minutes closed and they are never released. You cannot say because you pay taxes you have some special right that is above the law. It just makes you sound crazy and feeds into the people who say the blog is only negative and complaining.
The paper should perhaps investigate why the high number of closed meetings, but many think there is much they should investigate in Peru and choose not to do it. Just publishing the fact there are many closed meetings really means nothing without a deeper investigation of possible wrongdoing. If the news Trib wanted to really investigate things, they have been given plenty of leads on this blog.
They don't care about anything but advertising and money, they have no sense of responsibility to inform and expose wrongdoing in the city. They are barely even a newspaper anymore.
Let's see. Three reasonable comments out of twenty so far. That's actually better than ususal.
I know most of you think you have a Right-To-Know every detail of every issue in Peru. It would be entertaining to hear some of the brilliant comments from if Closed Session topics were releasaed to be discussed on this blog. If I were an employee of this city I would cringe at the thought of you people being allowed access to my personal imformation. After all, that's why you people participate in this rumor-mongering blog inj the first place.
Every public body must protect certain confidential information for various reasons.
To allow yourselves to spiral into severe paranoia because you lack the level of intelligence required to understand the need for Closed Session is just sad.
If you can't be reasoned with you are not worth the effort it would take to teach you the basics of government. Acute paranoia will take its toll on your mental health and well-being.
I have seen proof of that on this blog.
8:26 I guess what you don't seem to understand is that some of us are curious as to why, with this new administration, there have been so many problems or items that need to be discussed in closed session when, in the past, closed sessions were unheard of. I also understand where you're coming from when you state that some things need to be discussed in private. But, once these issues are resolved, the minutes of the meeting, I believe, should be disclosed. I personally feel that if we have this much trouble with appointments and employees we have a problem and maybe need to make some leadership changes.
9:06 AM
I also agree with you but it seems that 8:26 AM has issues with the tax payers of Peru being given information about how this city is run. If we have so many issues that require closed sessions and hardly any intelligent respectful discussions on the council floor, I believe that this is a problem somewhere along the line. We very seldom ever hear any discussion from the mayor, so I assume it is in closed sessions where he voices his opinion. I am talking about respectful discussions and that is something we are not seeing. Those that can't handle the job need to be replaced.
Closed session discussions are very common in all forms of government. It is very common and it is not necessarily a bad thing for the reasons described by several posters. Wouldn't we all love to be in on all of the "fiscal cliff" discussions in D.C.? Not going to happen.
You have to remember that local governments are also businesses that employ people, get involved in litigation, deal with personnel issues, etc. And you do not have a right to know everything that goes on unless you are one of the elected officials. That is why there are allowable exemptions to the open meetings act, and the city actually appears to follow them. Remember, they cannot take action in closed session, so any action resulting from those meetings has to take place in open session.
Good discussion, but some people do need to actually understand that they don't have a right to every detail or discussion. Read the open meetings act. There are plenty of things that will remain sealed, particularly as it pertains to personnel issues. This is simply the law, as it should be, at every level of government.
Anon 8:26 If you are saying that as a taxpayer of the City of Peru I believe that I have the right to know what I am paying taxes for.
Your right! I want to know what I am getting for my money! End of discussion!
9:47 PM
There was recently a closed session taken prior to a vote on a specific contract being awarded. The regular council meeting was interrupted so this could take place. Then a vote was taken on the awarding of this contract in open council and no discussion could publicly take place before the vote because it had just been discussed in closed session. In fact I am not certain that all the bids were opened at a council meeting prior to that closed session. This was all about the demolition of the old power plant. In this instance, it was an effective means of avoiding public discussion of a contract being given to a specific company.
To Lois and 9:06 AM,
I understand your curiousity. I really do. What you don't seem to understand is that you make a huge assumption when you say that Closed Sessions are automatically the result of some sort of "problem". That is an unfair assumption with no basis.
The next mistake you make is your assumption that the previous administration should be considered as more "open" because of the lack of Closed Sessions. It's quite the opposite.
You fail to understand that the reason the Baker administration never used Closed Session was because Don Baker made each and every critical decision on his own, without input or consult with the full city council in either Open or Closed Session. Therefore, no record exists whatsoever of how a multitude of critical decisions were arrived at in Peru's last 44 years. You won't find a record of momentous decisions because there is none. Don didn't need their opinion nor did he want it. All he needed was their vote when it came time and they all fell in line like little tin soldiers each and every time. If you were honestly concerned about the entire city council having a voice and a seat at the table in every aspect of city business you would realize that it is actually better policy to conduct Closed Session when necessary as long as the entire Public Body is allowed to participate and have input on those decisions. And, most importantly that a record of the Closed Session be created as required. Now, it's up to you to lobby the Public Body to release those Closed Session minutes. We know they do exist and that's the most important thing to realize.
Sad to see most of you people can't even recognize open government while it's playing out right in front of you.
10:20 AM
I am aware of how business was conducted in prior administrations and I would not go so far as to say the aldermen did not know because I do believe that some if not all knew what he would be proposing or what he had done. Referring back to the previous administration does no good as we must deal with what we currently have in office and what we the citizens of this city will do about it in April elections.
Its my opinion that anyone who actually thinks that 46 documented closed session meetings in a 3-3/12 years time frame isn't strange maybe needs to think about it. Yes, it's understandable there will be some, but 46? Really! And to think these are documented. I wonder how many times there have been undocumented discussions and cocktail hours in regards to Perus working. Does anybody know if this happens?
closed session should be vedio taped and shown when session is closed .
12:31 What are you trying to say? Closed sessions are recorded, always have been, at least audio.
10:20 I'm 9:06 and I'd like to know how we are supposed to know that those closed sessions are recorded if they never get released to the public? And, I am not assuming all closed sessions are the result of a "problem" but, without minutes being released one would have to assume there is a reason for the secrecy. And, usually good things are not kept secret at least in my books there not.
Some of you are completely missing the point. The closed meetings have to be recorded but under the law you have NO right to hear or see what it going on. They are recorded so a judge can review to determine if they have violated the open meetings act. That's it. This is the law. READ and stop spouting off about what you think it is, when what it is can be found in black and white.
Releasing most closed session minutes could put the city or its employees in harms way. This is not public information, although the council can decide to release some of the closed session minutes periodically.
This is how it is done with any local unit of government and it allows the council to fully do its job. Read the law. School boards and municipalities have to do this for a host of reasons and I believe there are more than a dozen "exceptions" to the open meetings act. What you should be suspicious of is a government that never discusses certain issues in closed session! The amount will vary depending on the need.
4:01 PM
Or one who who only discusses in closed session.
I agree Lois. Obviously this can be taken too far and I am not judging what the council does exactly. If someone thinks they are violating the OMA then there are remedies for that. I just wanted to esxplain some of how this works because people truly take closed session the wrong way and don't understand the law. Thanks for letting me explain.
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