Making money, perhaps they could consult with PVAS and offer suggestions.
Wednesday, October 19, 2011
La Salle Fire Chief says new ambulance service is making money « AM1220 WLPO News
La Salle Fire Chief says new ambulance service is making money « AM1220 WLPO News
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40 comments:
First of all you are taking the word of the man who stared the ambulance service in LaSalle. Have you seen or has he produced any numbers to prove that in fact they are making money? It is easy to say we are making money, now prove it. Second do you think that the chief, who pushed so hard to get his own service, would tell us if they were losing money? Lastly when LaSalle has succesfully operated an ambulance service for 31 plus years, then they may be able to offer some advice. Lets not start holding them up on a pedestal yet, they have made it a grand total of 6 months.
You must be a Peru resident or a member of the Peru ambulance service ANON 12:15. Why can't we just be proud of our fellow citizens and neighbors and wish them well? And lastly, who has operated an ambulance service successfully for 31 plus years - PVAS? I don't see any proof on that issue and when any questions are asked regarding this service answers are not given.
Hopefully Peru will follow the lead here in La Salle. I think Peru is the only city left that does not have an Ambulance crew in their Fire house. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out, or see that if what La Salle did was a bad move every other city would hire a private company.
Someone needs to talk to whoever is on the city safety committee in Peru and have them do their research. I think Peru would save or make money by running EMS
I guess if there are still 3 members of council that are still affiliated with the peru ambulance then only 5 can vote for such a move.
WAKE UP PERU!!!!
I did hear Fire Chief Bacidore at the Council mtg and his request for some changes and the council after a few questions agreed it would be a good change. Now I want to say,when was the last time our ambulance director stood before our city council prepared to answer questions from the council about the service, when it was time for the city to again agree to continue the stipend they give to the ambulance each month of $4,000.
PVAS is a corporation existing on its own with a donation from the city. Apparently there are those who do not agree with a donation of taxpayers money being channeled to PVAS. If they would truly wish to stop this donation they should speak up at public comment or ask to be put on the meetings agenda to express their viewpoint. The city council has a increased intensity when put under the magnifying glass.
Than you may want the donation stopped with other avenues being taken for ambulatory care. Either way a personal appearance of yourself or some designated spokesman with you or your group at the meeting expressing your feelings works best.
3:52PM
With 2 current aldermen and 2 former aldermen on the 5 member board, it is difficult to get a unbiased decision made. If I donate $5.00 to a charity, I don't ask where it is going but when the amount is $4,000 each month, it makes a difference. The arrangement with the city whereas PVAS gets money from us then we, the city of Peru, should get more financial information than we do. The only information we get is the number of calls they make and for what reason they are made, emergency vs transfers etc.
I know that the service owns 6 ambulances but there are times when only 1 is available for use by our residents. So when the need is for 2, we either wait for the one to finish the call they happen to be on or call LaSalle.
I may add to Anon 3:52's very good comment that if you don't feel you are getting the results or the answers which you are looking for become the aggressor on the issue. Keep coming back to the meetings and ask for follow up on what progress has been made. If you seem to be sopped because of intimidation change spokespersons from time to time with the same goals. Alderman Perez continually has to bring up the same ideas and to his credit he also never gives up. He has positive goals and he is striving very hard to achieve them. I have to compliment him on his efforts and wish more political ideas came from the heart it would make a better community to live in. We have become so sophisticated with ordinances, negative attitudes, my way or the high way approaches etc.
Fire based EMS huh....watch the news on WQAD...Moline cut their fire EMS and will be privatizing....it make more fiscal sense, and will provide a better service. Rockford will be doing the same soon.
Remember...LaSalle is paying much more than $48,000 per year to PSI and as the contract continues they will see none of the money...it will all go to PSI. At least PVAS puts the money back into the organization!!
Lastly...PVAS hires local paramedics...PSI...well they brought in folks from outside the IL Valley....way to support the community!!!
5:39 PM
Can you please give me the reasons why Ottawa, Mendota and Princeton have successful F.D. Emt Ambulance services?
5:30 PM
I have many questions, will you make yourself available and give the answers. It has been stated previously that many of the PVAS paramedics are not from the area, can you clarify whether this is true or not?. How many are currently working for PVAS?
Hey Anon 5:39. How come when Moline enters a public private partnership for EMS you said its the way to go, makes fiscal sense, and at the same time, you knock LaSalle for doing the same thing. My guess is your a member of PVAS and was not qualified to be hired by LaSalle even though the applications for LaSalle where open to everyone in the area. just because you live in the area does not mean you are qualified to be hired. Maybe LaSalle likes to hire the best qualified person for the job. Does all the Peru Police officers live in Peru? Don`t think so. Way to support the community!!!! The only difference between public vs private services is that privates pay less. no real benefits. Thats what appeals to the cities in these tough fiscal times. I did read the article about moline and nothing was said about the fire/medics quality of care. Anon 5:39 do you know the defenition of a Hypocrisy?
http://www.trinityqc.com/Medical-Services/Medical-Services/Transportation.aspx
Speaking of ambulance service in the Quad Cities, their major hospital Trinity is also a provider of ambulance services and more. This is an interesting look at another way to run an ambulance service.
http://www.rigov.org/index.aspx?NID=612
Rock Island a sister city to Moline has this FD/EMT service
Just researched the Quad Cities emergency services and it appears that what Moline is doing with have little impact on most people there. If Trinity Hospital services are covering all the cities, it looks like people in Moline will be covered by them. Meanwhile Rock Island and Davenport the larger cities will still have their FD/EMS services.
How is it possible to obtain a job analysis of the Superintendent of Public Works for Peru. I understand his salary is $87,000 per year for a occupation that has been cut back to four (4) days a week. I sincerely hope that this is only a rumor.
It appears that a comparative analysis should be made for the prevailing wage of the area for all of the salaried positions paid by the Peru government and salary caps implemented.
The starting point of implementing sound financial reasoning in Peru appears to be hiring a city manager.
11:41 Are you serious? You heard that he was cut back to 4 days a week? Why? Can anyone verify this?
I also was told that he has been cut back to four days a week without any loss of pay. This 4 day work week is to compensate him for meeting times such as he attends the city council meetings. He is probably due for a wage review-last years salary increase was $6,000.00 per year. Four days a week, $87,000 per year makes for a pretty good job in a up economy oops were in a down economy. Don't blame him for taking it, but lets get to the problem which is to make the people who are responsible for giving it to him accountable.
I posted the 12:15 and I never said I wasn't happy for the city of Lasalle for starting there own ambulance service. I hope they are sucessful. All I said is lets see some proof. I keep reading the negative comments about PVAS, but the Lasalle chief makes one comment and you people are ready to stand up and cheer. If that had been the case for PVAS, you would be demanding proof in some type of report. I truly think that fire based EMS can work, but is not always the answer for every city. As for higher care, or for the paramedics being more qualified in Lasalle, that is simply not true. PSI is one of the lowest paid providers, and hires mostly fresh paramedics right out of school. I'm not saying that is necessarily bad, but most of there paramedics have little or no real world experience. Also there has been a big turnover rate of their paramedics in Lasalle, I believe I have heard they have lost approx. 5 or 6 in the 6 months they have been there.
PVAS has been a service from 1980, they have had, I believe 5 directors in that time period. They are a strong service and have provided an excellent level of care for many many years, how you can say there is no proof they have succesfully operated an ambulance service for 31 years is beyond me. Have they had there problems, yes, but show me an organization that has been in exsistence that long that hasn't had some problems. Overall it is a excellent service that provides excellent care.
You ask if the director of the ambulance service has ever stood up at a council meeting and answered to the council. Has the director, ever been asked to answer questions? Please don't fault the director or "blame" him when the fault may be with the council or mayor.
ANON 1:19 please tell exactly what questions about the ambulance service that you would like an answer to that have not been answered. I think they have done a adequate job of answering any questions.
I think the $4000 the city provides to the ambulance service is a deal, when you consider the city of Lasalle pays in the neighbor hood of $40,000 a month to PSI.
By the way for the record I'm not a current member of PVAS.
10:10 If you are not a current member how can you state that things are running smoothly? It wasn't too long ago that several members posted a letter expressing their concerns and dissatifaction with the way things were being handled. How can you put blame on the council and the mayor? While I don't necessarily agree with them at all times I don't see how they could be at fault for an independent not- for -profit organization. You say all questions concerning PVAS have been answered but I disagree and, if they have been it took a lot of pulling teeth to find someone to answer them. Here's a good question - Why is their website still under construction (been years).
I think it is interesting that the city of LaSalle wanted to have its own ambulance service in town so their citizens could have more immediate response ot emergencies than they were getting when the ambulance service was a couple hundred feet from the city limits. Now, the city is going to allow their firefighters to live outside the city limits. Does this mean that that the people who are hurt in fires will be tended to as soon as possible; but, the fire itself will just have to wait?
Also, I agree that until the statements can be produced and published judgement should be witheld regarding the financial impact of the LaSalle FD's ambulance service. Give it a year and an auditor's report.
Pizzaboy,
Not too long ago, I was told that Peru firemen are not required to live within the city. I have not verified that with the Fire Chief.
I believe the area would benefit from a combined police, fire and ambulance service with sub stations in each city. And I mean true sharing not the way the PVAS shared with LaSalle. We have one hospital whereas we used to have 2. Our total population within the 2 cities combined has not varied hardly at all in the last 50 to 75 years or longer.
I will wait for the slings and arrows to come my way.
You have people complain about not enough answers to their questions about pvas, yet when someone makes an inteligent reponse with answers you choose not to post. Interesting, maybe you just like to see all the complaints posted.
2:15PM
Not sure what your point is, but I have posted EVERY post on the ambulance that has come in. If you are insinuating that I selectively pick and choose, you are very wrong. Is that what you want people to believe?? Just for your information, I do know quite a bit about the activity and the way that PVAS operates.
I'm not a current member but have been a member until very recently. The letter reffered to by ANON 11:03 was written by ONE disgruntled employee. They signed the letter as it was written by the entire service, which was not true. I know if you took a survey 99.9% of them would not agree with the letters content. It is much the same as what is going on at Peru fire dept. Any employeer is going ot have an employee with an ax to grind from time to time.
If you read my post you will find that I was not blaming the mayor or city council for any porblems at PVAS. I stated in response to Lois, who said that the ambulance director has never answered questions at a council meeting. What I said was MAYBE the council has not asked the director to answer questions. I'm not sure if this is true, but maybe we should find out before pointing fingers.
Of all the questions you have about PVAS a "good question" is about the web site? Does an organization have to have a first class web site to provide better patinet care. I'm not sure, but perhaps the time and money spent to create and update a web site are being better spent on staff training and improving patient care.
3:02PM
PVAS, I want to know how many trained employees and what their level of training is. BLS and ALS.
How is staffing done and how many are at the ambulance bldg. each day? I realize there are 6 ambulances but how many are "ready to go" at a minutes notice? Working 12 hr. shifts, how many are actually working and how many are on call if needed, again at a minutes notice.
What about transfers, how many do you allow out at the same time and to be out of territory?
What about "all call"? What are your stipulations regarding the next ambulance when one is busy with a call?
OK, start with those answers.
3:02 While you're looking for Lois's answers how about another few questions that I have. Why is it that when an ambulance that has blown it's sirens and whistles all the way from the station to Marquette Road turns them off the minute they turn left to go to Liberty Village? Why are many ambulances seen riding around town and going to the grocery store, Mc Donalds, Target, north on Peoria street toward the airport, etc.? How many of their calls per month are to Liberty Village? Who are the board members?
There are approx 40 EMTs on the roster, about 16 are higher level of care and the rest are basic level, with some of those being in the paramedic class. There are two , two person shifts a day. One shift works from 7 a.m. to 7a.m. the folowing day. The second shift works from 11 a.m. to 7 a.m. the folowing day. All ambulances are ready to go at a moments notice. If there is more calls then ambulances, an all call is done. If no one responds on the radio, mutual aid is called. This is the same procedure used by all aera ambulances. There is no 12 hour shifts. There are two crews at the building and the remaing staff is aviable by pager. Most transfers, and all long distance transfers are handeled by paid on call staff(POC) who are called in to take the transfer. So running a transfer does not take a crew out of service. They are people who are not working. So in theroy we need two ambulances for emergencies in Peru so we could have 4 doing transfers. That is not realistic due to staffing so normally 2 ambulances on a transfer would be the most typically out. All calls are called when all the on duty ambulances and crews are out. An all call is paged and anyone responding would get on the radio and let everyone know they are on the way.
The reason for shuting the siren off and on is the siren is used as needed. I don't think there is a need to turn it on when they leave the building and leave it on until on the scene, especially late at night or very early in the morning. Siren use is left to the discretion of the driver. Much like a fire truck or police car.
There are hundreds of reason for ambulances to be "riding around town." They could be going for gas, takeing an ambulance in for service, going out to teach a cpr class, giving tours of the ambulance at some event, they could be attendig a health fair and taking blood presures, they could be on a transfer, they could be running for supplies for the building. The reasons are endless. The ambulances going up plank road to the airport are going to the airport to pick up the helicopter crew. This has been going on for some time because the helicopter can not land at IVCH due to construction on the heliport. They then must transport the crew and patient back to the helicopter at the airport. There are many reasons you mya see an ambulance out of the station. I can assure you 99.9% of the time it is for ambulance business.
10:41 PM
If there are 2 ambulances ready at all times but not necessarily 2 in the ambulance bldg what would be the reason that the second does not answer to the all call since they have to be in the city but evidently not answering their page. It seems that the all call is happening much more frequently than it used to. True? If so why?
What about ambulances being busy with "lift assistance" and not available for an emergency?
Anon 4:13PM Why is it that you only see ambulances the 00.9% of the time when they are not on ambulance business. 10:41PM Your sentence there are hundreds of reasons for ambulances to be riding around town, should be corrected to there are thousands of excuses for ambulances to be riding around town. Four thousand of them being the monthly donation from the City of Peru. Should be a little less riding since LaSalle went on its own with apparent success. How often are the LaSalle ambulances seen riding around town? Lets start a comparative survey. Fellow LaSalle citizens should love it!
You still haven't explained to me why an ambulance responds to a call to Liberty Village as an emergency until it turns off of Marquette Road. Then, it's not an emergency??? Sirens and lights are silenced.
According to Illinois state law, the siren must be operated whenever emergency lights are in operation on an ambulance. This is NOT left to the discretion of the driver.
FYI Lois...
Davenport, Bettendorf, Eldridge, LeClaire are covered by a non-profit EMS agency..MEDIC EMS and has been since the 80's.
Trinity Ambulance cover Blackhawk FPD and does transfers.
RIFD will soon be privatizing like Moline..they have been discussing it for a couple years. When their current union contract is up they will most likely privatize.
East Moline citizens voted down fire based EMS and elected to keep Illini Ambulance because they get a better trained medic, and it won't increase their taxes. Illini covers Silvis, Colona, Upper RI County, and Coal Valley.
Sterling-Rock Falls...covered by CGH Ambulance.
Rockford...getting rid of FD EMS and going private.
Adams County (Quincy)... County based EMS --- would be a great model for LaSalle County.
Decatur...private for profit covers tranfers and 911...has for decades
Springfield .... covered by for profit privates that do 911 and transfers...
Peoria...non-profit...does 911 and transfers
Fulton County...county based EMS
Menard County... county based EMS
McDonough County ... county based EMS
Galesburg... non-profit..does 911 and transfers
Mendota, Princeton, Ottawa are fine departments but don't train to the same EMS skill/knowledge level as EMS-only agencies simply because they have to put so much time into their fire and other training. Not their fault...they are average EMS providers.
Anon 8:43 i think you fail to see the reason why those agencies switched to not for profit. its because they pay nothing in wages. I would expect that you now endorse the low pay that follows these type of EMS agencies. To say that they are average EMS providers you need to step up to the plate and prove your comments. Those postions are filled by a very competitive testing process unlike the privates or not for profits who will take anyone that has a pulse regardless of their abilities. The fire services base EMS is a high end over all rescue person who can deliver patient care under any situation unlike the 3oo pound lazy medic who was unable to pass a agility test to get hired. Anon, you will be the first to say that medics are under paid. I would expect if all these not for profits and privates decided tomorrow to pay you as much as the fire based people are getting you would say its about time. There are two problems with that. One, you are only trainined to do one job and do not operate effectively as a team. And two. you just put that city in the same financial position that caused them to hire the cheap labor EMS. Read the articls, it has to do with pension issues in the state of Illinois. Once the pension problems are solved you will see all these transitions stop. Please post on this blog where any of these transitions to privates was done because of quality of care issues. You are just another Private EMS Person who is not qualified to be the best for your community. You most have an axe to grind for a personal reason. You can agree there are alot of problems with who the privates and Not for Profits hire. you most likely know of some people in the area that work for some of the not for profits and what kind of horrible things they have done. But we cannot tell anyone about that because when your private you can swipe these perverted issues under the table unlike the public agencies who require full disclosure and tranparency. Now you need to post all the counties and local governments that are fire based ems. It far out numbers what you listed in your post. REMEMBER Private, or not for profit equals low pay. You cannot have it both ways. If you pay top dollar you expect the best. If you pay nothing you get nothing.
Anon 10:24 You dont know everything: In cases of seizure and mental health patients it is possibly detrimental to arrive on scene with lights and sirens blaring. Im sure that doing the same to the elderly in a retirement home could cause worry and unneccessary anxiety in the middle of the night. After checking with the Secretary of State and being referred to the Illinois Vehicle Code please see below:
2. The ambulance or rescue vehicle shall be equipped with a siren producing an audible signal of an intensity of 100 decibels at a distance of 50 feet from the siren, and with a lamp or lamps emitting an oscillating, rotating or flashing red beam directed in part toward the front of the vehicle, and these lamps shall have sufficient intensity to be visible at 500 feet in normal sunlight, and in addition to other lighting requirements, excluding those vehicles operated in counties with a population in excess of 2,000,000, may also operate with a lamp or lamps emitting an oscillating, rotating, or flashing green light;
3. The aforesaid siren and lamp or lamps shall be in operation at all times when it is reasonably necessary to warn pedestrians and other drivers of the approach thereof during such trip or journey;
11:36 In your first paragraph you state that it might be detrimental to arrive on scene with lights and sirens blaring. Your last paragraph (which I believe you quoted from the Ill. Vehicle Code) states that siren and lamps shall be in operation at all times when necessary to warn others. Doesn't make sense and is contradictary.
You asked why sirens were turned off after turning off of Marquette St. That is most likely because there was traffic on Shooting Park Rd and Marquette St and not on the less traveled rd going east which is normally 25 th st. We have no problem using our sirens when needed, it just that we do no have to have them going the whole time. Even with the psych and seizure call we will use them in the busy areas and turn them off when we get close to the residence. Trust me ...if you are in front of us and do not move .....we love to use the sirens as well as the air horn.
11:36, the state has long held that the requirement as listed in #3 above means that the siren and flashing lights must be used together. You are correct that there are circumstances in which you don't want to have the siren blasting. In those circumstances, you should be shutting down the flashing lights and driving in non-emergency mode.
I hope that you do not speed or ignore traffic control devices without the siren operating. If you have an accident, it is going to be your fault. If someone is killed, you will likely be brought up on manslaughter charges. Ambulances need to operate in emergency mode with all lights and sirens operating or in non-emergency mode.
If you aren't aware that this is how the law sees ambulance operation, you might want to review your agencies education program.
Cranky Medic
I should add that, statistically speaking, responding in emergency mode with lights and sirens operating is extremely dangerous. Several studies have suggested that it might be better to get rid of emergency response altogether. The time saved does not affect patient outcomes in any statistically significant fashion, but the risk of accident is greatly increased. The patient does not benefit if the ambulance never reaches the scene or the hospital.
Cranky Medic
I was reading the comments in the N.T. about ambulance service LaSalle vs Peru and want to know if this is correct. Many comments have been made about PVAS driving about instead of being grounded to their station while the LaSalle medics stay at the station during their shift which I believe is 12 hours.
Is this correct? It seems that La Salle has a very quick response time and that would explain why.
La Salle shifts are 12 hours??
PVAS has One shift works from 7 a.m. to 7a.m. the folowing day. The second shift works from 11 a.m. to 7 a.m. the folowing day. Does that mean that there are 4 hours with only one group on call. (taken from an earlier post 10:41 PM)
Lasalle shifts are 24 hours
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