Please excuse my pencil lines but this is one of my work papers. This type of report comes out monthly from PVAS to the city of Peru. For some reason it is read at the City Council meetings. The one item that caught my eye was the fact that they (PVAS) have an ambulance on standby at the La Salle Speedway in spite of the fact that LaSalle does provide emergency care and transport if needed to/from the Speedway. So why are we there with an ambulance? I should not say we because this is a private not for profit corporation that the City of Peru generously donates $4000 to each month. It is truly a donation because although their board consists of elected or previously elected city officials, the city has no none input into the organization and how it is run. No one other than the board sees their books. It is time for the city of Peru to get into or out of the ambulance business. If we continue to support a service, why are we not doing like La Salle, Mendota, Princeton and Ottawa for starters. They all have their own Fire Department Paramedic service that are run well and even make a profit for their respective cities. If we can't do that, then let the service learn how to manage their finances and run as a truly private corp. and not a half way, partially supported by the city organization. Enough is enough.
61 comments:
Why indeed is the ambulance report read at our council meetings? Does anyone ever check to see if the information is accurate? I have repeatedly questioned who the new 5 board members are, how many calls go to Liberty Village, and why the ambulances seem to be riding all over town and going out to eat together.
I would like to know of the 160 emergencies for Peru how many were to Liberty Village and how many of those ended up in refusals.
Does not make any sense to read the report as 11:26 A.M has states, we the city have no means of verifying it and I don't mean by Ald. Ankiewicz, former Ald. O'Beirne and whoever else is on their board.
I will guess of the 122 transfers at a minimum 50% were to/from Manor Court and those would be for seniors on Medicare paying for the transfer. Correct?
correction 0 11:26 A.M states
Wasn't this tried last year then failed? PVAS is ran by the city. It's ran by two current aldermen and two former aldermen;Bob A, Dave P, Jack O, Don P. and who knows who the other is,
Probably Don B.
Wait!! that attempt was last year, hmmm. Perhaps a new council could get it done??
has anyone heard yet how much the pool is getting from the concert for a cause?
Lois - there are many more concerns / costs if the service becomes part of the City.
If the City decides to provide this service, it should be EMT only. Transferring patients would need to be the responsibility of the nursing homes and hospitals. Transfers would not be profitable with the increased cost of City Employees. Come to think of it... why don't the nursing homes have their own "ambulance" to transfer residents to the hospital? Answer: Because they don't want the added expense.
The new La Salle ambulance service has proven themselves to be professional and competent. Our hats off to them.
Brian, if what you say is true, then how can the cities I have mentioned be taking care of their ambulance services and supposedly at a profit. I do know that Ottawa does not do transfers but has arrangements with Marseilles to do that. I believe Mendota and Princeton is handled entirely by their paramedics working for the city.
Lois said...
Also in regard to NH and their use of the ambulance service, some seem to overuse it and others rarely. Why is there such a big difference when they are all caring for the same type of patients, our elderly and some disabled. A perfect example is the NH here in Peru.
Profitability is subjective. Tax dollars are paying for the transfer (Medicare / Medicade). If Peru started an ambulance service as part of the fire department, it could be done with less people if they only provided EMT service / response. In my uneducated opinion - each additional servcie requires additional staffing. I would actually support a property tax increase to have a professional EMT service run by the Fire Department IF it was used for emergencies only.
I'm not trying to be cold - I know the residents of the nursing homes need to get to the hospital at times. I will probably be in the same situation some day. But - the nursing homes are businesses. They make a huge profit and are paid, for the most part, by tax dollars. They should either contract their ambulance service or have a staffed ambulance at the facility.
just because a person is in the nursing home their illness may not be the same-what are you people thinking about???? get your stories straight or at least half way believable before you post such stupid remarks. perhaps the nursing home pays for these transfers bet you any money medicare doesnt pay for them.
Non-emergency transfers actually pay more money than 911 calls. Those non-emergency nursing home transfers can be quite profitable, and a number of for-profit ambulance companies around the country do nothing but that type of business.
Unfortunately, Medicare, Medicaid, and insurance company payments for 911 services are relatively low. Generally, this means that ambulance services must either be subsidized by taxes and/or handle non-emergency transfers.
Mendota and Princeton do it all so perhaps we need to inquire of them, how costly is it for your FD Emt service to do emergencies, transfers and be prepared to send out firemen and equipment when need be.
And of course what about LaSalle, does anyone know if they do transfers out of city. I know they do them within.
"Non-emergency transfers actually pay more money than 911 calls." This statement isn't necessarily true. The reimbursement from insurance companies including Medicare is significantly more for emergencies than it is for transfers. That being said, a transfer can bring in quite a bit more money than an emergency because of the mileage charges.
To answer Lois' question, to my knowledge LaSalle Fire does not do out of town transfers.
Princeton has a transfer crew in house during the day and calls staff back when they're off duty. Mendota Fire calls staff in if an out of town transfer comes in. If Mendota and/or Princeton can't staff a transfer, it isn't unusual for 10-33 ambulance to take the transfer.
Brian - Profitability is subjective? No, profitability is verifiable. When an entity like PVAS, non-profit or not, has proven to be inefficient and unable to support itself without a taxpayer subsidy that is a verifiablly poorly run operation.
Since many local communities are providing EMT or EMT / Firefighter services to their respective communities there should be no trouble researching and verifying if those cities do so at a profit or at a loss.
Fire Chief Jeff king has done the research and is prepared to present a report to the city council of his findings along with a proposal for a city run service.
If and when Mr. King is allowed to give his report we will all be more informed on the matter.
I'm well aware of your claims that any increase to the city payroll will automatically cause a tax increase and doom a city run service.
I am of the opinion that if it can be verified that it can be done professionally and profitably elsewhere, and without a tax increase, then why not in Peru Brian?
Great more union jobs and more payroll. After all isn't that the ultimate goal. Has the PVAS service been professional and working? Most will say yes. Sounds to me Steve you are again on the issue of enlarging the government services and raising taxpayer expenses. Last week you discussed the need for a tax increase for roads when we are already paying for this. More employees for a service that is already provided makes no sense to anyone.
10:43AM
No PVAS is not generally professional, putting in their time yes but that is all. We want the best we can get not just getting by.
10:43 a.m. - Re-read the last sentence from my last comment.
Propping up a poorly run ambulance service with taxpayer subsidies is what makes no sense to anyone, except apparently you and that crackerjack Board of Directors.
How do you manage your paranoia of organized labor? Have you considered re-locating to a right to work state or better yet, Wisconsin?
Doesn't St. Margarets and IVCH provide transportation from the nursing homes to their hospitals? I know they have the vehicles and I've seen them at the nursing homes so why the necessity for ambulances to transport?
12:55 PM
No Hospitals only provide transport for daycare that I am aware of. Calls from NH seem to be considered emergencies and are handled by an ambulance service. Some are emergency trips and others are not.
Lois: I do know that St. Margaret's picks up patients at nursing homes and takes them for treatments (such as dialysis).
1:56PM
While I wrote the post, I wondered how local NH handle things like M.D. Specialist at the hospital visits, or x-rays, ct scans etc.
My sis in law is in a local NH in LaSalle Peru and I do believe any trips she has had to the hospital are by ambulance.
Now Steve I know you are being passionate about the ambulance and I agree somewhat with it being a debaggle; but playing devil's advicate isn't throwing sales tax money at an unorganized infrastructured project with "open" funding just as silly? I think we could both agree an organize well written plan should be presented before any more funds are taken/spent from the tax payers.
Kristy
both hospitals have transport vans and yes they do take patients to and from if they are able to sit in a van, i think most of you posters live in some make believe world and have nothing better to do than guess at the posts you write. wow
Steve - maybe you should read my statement a little closer. I said I would support an EMS service that is fully funded by property tax. But I think it should be an EMERGENCY service not a taxi service. While it might appear to be profitable for a CITY EMS Service to make trips from the facility to a hospital - this is generally paid for by MEDICADE - tax money moving from the state to the city. Now follow me - these facilities are already profitable based on receiving money from the tax payers. This is tax money moving to private hands. They should sholder the burden of resident transportation.
Bottom line - EMS service with an approprate staff - Yes. Taxi service with and expanded staff - No.
Brian - Yes, I follow you. Thank you for directing me and I do understand.
You believe you possess enough knowledge and understanding of the Emergency Services industry that qualifies you to make recommendations on how municipalities should operate their ambulance services. You are providing your opinion of what you believe Peru's "Operating Strategy" should be if they choose to run their own operation.
I get you!
This blog provides for all of us to express our opinions, and my opinion continues to be that I will feel much more confident and re-assured with the advice and recommendation of Fire Chief Jeff King on the matter of how to successfully operate the service.
But thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Kristy - The lack of a detailed plan at this time will not effect the successful start of improving our infrastructure. A comprehensive capital improvement plan can be created by elected officials in a very short period of time. Determining priorities and allocation of funds will be a process of debate and discussion that will include many people.
It is actually a huge blessing to us taxpayers that Chamlin has not been authorized to start their billable hour machine "over-engineering" some massive voluminous capital improvement plan. Engineering costs for all future projects can be kept in check by hiring an "In-House Professional Engineer" and through competitive bidding for any additional engineering services. City leaders should also encourage community involvement from citizens with a working knowledge and expertise with infrastructure improvements to contribute to the plan and discussion.
You should be very glad Kristy, that Chamlin has not been allowed to start the Cash-O-Meter, and somebody has to make sure they never do.
While I totally agree with you Steve I do not see the city hiring our own engineer. It is something that has been needed for years and no steps have been taken to make it happen. What makes you think our council will change its' mind now?
Steve, lets open it up for volunteers to give the city engineering plans. And hire another engineer to look over the other engineers plans. Sounds like more hand holding at City Hall. I think Mayor Harl had the right idea by getting rid of one engineer.
The only engineer he got rid of was a mistake and left us with nothing in that department but the riddler.
ANON 11:10 Please tell us what engineer Mayor Harl got rid of. I don't recall that at all unless you're talking about when he first took office. He didn't get rid of that engineer our sitting council did. BIG MISTAKE!
Steve how is that being pro-active? By implementing a documented plan after the vote isnt that actually being re-active to the increase?
Kristy
To all above that commented. AN EMT service? The area services are proud to have upgraded to the paramedic level. Becoming that level means that we can do life saving measures that could not be done before! There is multiple levels of ems go to idph's website and learn them. As for nursing homes, there are true 911 calls out of them there they are not all transfers. Some of the worst patients paramedics/emt's see are from nursing homes. If this was your loved one would you not want them transported to the hospital emergently? Or would you wait the 45 mins to get a crew in and up to the nursing home to transport them. As for the report given each month....do you donate or give money to anything? Do you not get a newsletter keeping you up to date of whats going on? The only publicity public safety gets in the media is negative. you don't see the fact that the paramedics/emt's spent hundred's of hours training to respond to any emergency! And unprofessional? How are the employee's unprofessional? Give examples? JUST REMEMBER WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO IN AN EMERGENCY......YOU DIAL 911! NO MATTER WHAT TIME OR WEATHER THEY WILL COME! GROW UP AND DO SOME REAL RESEARCH AND BRING BACK REAL EVIDENCE BEFORE YOU START ACCUSING PEOPLE OF BEING UNPROFESSIONAL AND UNWORTHY OF TREATING YOU OR YOUR FAMILY!
OHH AND ITS GREAT THAT ONLLY APPROVED POSTS ARE SEEN.....LOUIS MAKE SURE YOU STIR THE POT AND ONLY POST THE ONES THAT WILL CAUSE A RUCKUS...GLAD TO SEE YOUR MENTALITY IS THAT OF A HIGH SCHOOLER
Thanks Steve - I haven't been patronized like that since the last time I spoke to the city council.
Sometimes people are too close to an issue to make an unbiased recomendation. It is the goal of every public service to grow. It might not be stated as such, but it is true.
Services provided by the government should be limited to what is necessary. I beleive it is necessary for a city to have an Emergency Medical Service. This service should have enough staff and equipment to cover the city 24 hours a day / 7 days a week / 365 days a year. This should be for Emergency Medical Services only. It should be provided free of charge and paid for by tax dollars and maybe local donations. This service should not conduct routine ambulance services. That should be the job of the private sector.
It is tempting for public EMS services to conduct routine ambulance services because of the cash flow. But, in my opinion, doing this adds additional requirements for employees and equipment beyond the original mandate for Emergency Service.
I acknowledge that I have no experience in EMS. But, I have extensive experience in public service and have first hand knowledge in mission requirements and mission creep. For example, the 1990's saw a drastic change in the use of the U.S. Armed services. Humanitarian and relief efforts where added to the mission. This led to increased requirements for people and equipment. It also led to a force that was not prepared for either a defense / hostile action or huminatarian mission. The force was / is somewhere inbetween - unable to conduct either mission at 100% effectiveness.
I'm sorry to drone on, but I want to make my point perfectly clear. If Peru wants an EMS Service - that is great. If Peru simply wants to incorporate PVAS into the city stucture - then no. The majority of what they do is not EMS.
6:02PM
What is routine ambulance service? Someone with chest pain could be having a heart attack or a bad case of gastritis. The same with shortness of breath, is it a heart attack, a pulmonary embolism, asthma or a panic attack?
Many calls are to nursing homes for a variety of illnesses and some perhaps not actually emergencies but depending upon the knowledge and capabilities of the staff, they might or might not be.
Not sure a town could support a public and a private service and if you are going to staff an ems service adequately, they might just as well be earning their salary doing something in between emergencies.
What about drunks falling down in the street or calls because of an overdose?
The government should not concern itself with how a private service is "supported." They will either be in business or not. If a need exists for this service, the people, hospitals, clinics, nursing facilities, etc will figure out how to provide it.
Inbetween emergencies the EMT's should be training.
If 911 is called it is an emergency:
I found this definition on the web:
Non-emergent transport is a form of medical transportation which is provided in non-emergency situations to people who require special medical attention. Ambulances or other vehicles are utilized in non-emergency medical transport; the goal is to get the patient from one location to another safely while offering medical support, rather than to offer 911 emergency field treatment and rapid transport to an emergency facility. A candidate for non-emergent medical transport is a medically stable, but still in need of medical support patient. For example a resident of a nursing home who has just spent time in the hospital might need non-emergency transport to get back to the nursing home so that personnel can monitor the patient’s condition and deal with any medical issues associated with the patients needs. Likewise, a chronically ill patient might need medical transport to get to scheduled doctors or rehabilitation appointments.
Brian, from personal experience I have seen times when our family has experienced a need to get to Peoria quickly but not so fast that a helicopter was required. A 911 call was not required because the patient was already in the hospital. An ambulance was used for the transport and I believe that emts needed to be on board. I traveled right behind them, so know how quickly the trip was made.
Would this be considered an emergency in your estimation using an ambulance manned with emts onboard. And then we get to the point, are we using those trained in basic life support or those who are ALS trained (advanced life support)?
It is my understanding that the ambulance is not used for the situations you describe. I believe that NH do have the necesssary transport for the conditions you have mentioned. I am aware that they have vehicles that can take multiple numbers of people out for travel at one time.
Because the patient would be going from one medical facility to another in the case of one returning to a NH, I think an ambulance would be needed.
Kristy - It's not re-active for two reasons.
First, You should not pay for engineering a plan before funds have been voted on to pay for the engineering or the actual work. Only Chamlin would make money if a sales tax increase were denied.
Second, The eventual improvement plan need not be a monstrous multi-volume engineering masterpiece that will end up costing near as much as the actual work to be done. The actual schedule of priorities and the overall determination of what to fix, how to fix it, and when to fix it, should be decided by elected officials with plenty of public input. Why? Because it's free!
You don't spend what you don't have and you always proceed with the mind-set that you will get the best plan, the best quality and workmanship at the best possible value for every penny you put forth. You do not deviate from that plan.
To 9:43 a.m. - Thank you for that question. The reason I believe there will soon be an engineer on the city payroll is the same reason I am convinced the city of Peru is moving in the right direction on a number of fronts. That is, because we as a community, have been successful in the past two plus years in seeing new aldermen and women elected and appointed who understand the critical importance of doing what is best for the city as a whole and not on behalf of any special interests. It's just that simple.
We will have a city engineer working solely for the benefit of the city because we no longer have a majority of elected officials who have been more concerned with protecting the interests of private contractors and consultants then they were about the overall interests of Peru. We now have a majority of elected officials who are prepared and determined to do things the right way.
However, make no mistake about it, there still remains a few hold-outs on the city council who are determined to prevent things like competitive bidding and other practices that will jeopordize the sweet-heart deals established over the past forty years. Specifically, Bob Ankiewicz and Dave Waldorf. These two aldermen are determined to protect the interests of TEST, Inc. and Chamlin and Associates by opposing competitive bidding for water and wastewater services, engineering services, and by opposing the hiring of an in-house engineer.
We can only speculate as to what motivates these two aldermen and others to take the position they do.
I must warn you this will start a debate, but I believe an intelligent debate.
Brian I have to disagree to an extend on government involvement on how a business is operated. First I am not for big government, but if a business expects benefits and breaks from the government, than yes they should be monitored and regulated. Unfortunates that is why the banking, housing, etc....
Here is a personal example. A local hospital claims non-for-profit status and
receives numerous tax breaks/incentives while the board and CEO is paid 100s of thousands of $. I am had an ER for a migraine visit WITHOUT
insurance and the bill was $1500.00. Mind you no test only medicine. I tried to apply for financial help from the hospital and never received any. The FULL $1500.00 went to collection and I argued how can they charge me the full price when I am uninsured and someone who is insured only is charged $700.00 for the same service? They stated I had a bill once before and paid it. I asked about the Fair Patient Billing Act or fair business practices? The collection agency had no clue and it ended up going to a local attorney where it ended up in court. In the mean time, months later at my doctors office I am chatting with a woman who tells me the hospital put a lien on her house for $20,000.00+ because she did not have insurance and her son needed emergency surgery. I started to wonder if this is a pattern with the hospital?
Anyway in court I told him I was only working part-time and a full time student I would pay $10.00/month BUT I was not going to pay the FULL cost of the bill. That it was wrong and against the law since I was uninsured. The lawyer proceeded to tell me he had never heard of the act! Ending story St. Margaret's Hospital put a lien on my house for $1500.00!
Moral of the story: Some people fight because they believe they should win; while others win because they fight for what they believe.
Kristy
EMT 3:38. Sorry to be responding to your post so late but apparently I somehow missed it. You are absolutely correct when you state that
we would want our loved ones transported to a hospital emergently (your word). The thing that I have witnessed many, many times is the ambulance responding to a nursing facility in an emergency manner but leaving in no hurry at all. No lights, sirens, etc. Therefore we have to conclude that it was not an emergency. You state that some of the most serious patients you see come from nursing home calls. Why then are they not treated as such and rushed to a hospital?
kristy i am sure you do not understand the patient fair billing act, if you did you would not have posted somethins so absurd. really get your facts straight and while you are at it pay your bill if you still owe it
Now 5:o8 why would you say something like that? It appears that data I have started to collect that this may indeed be a trend with the hospital. I suggest you observe some morning at Bureau County court!
20 ILCS 88 fair patient billing act
Oh Trust me when I tell you, I AM getting my facts straight and the stories of other people just like me.
Kristy
I was treated at a local hospital for a migraine, too. I was there approximately 2 hours and received an IV and medication. Since I work in the medical field, I know what these items cost. The total cost of materials used was less than $25. The total bill was over $4000. The doctor and nurses were great. They deserve all the money that they make and more. I appreciate that the hospital has an overhead cost to cover. Yet, $4K was ridiculous. I was able to get an itemized copy of the bill and could compare their charges against national averages. I was charged a higher price for most items than what is charged in most *for-profit* hospitals. Yet, they claim *non-profit* status to avoid paying taxes.
To anonymous 10:59, I am a paramedic (not local). We rarely use lights and sirens going to the hospital. Usually, the crew is able to begin the needed treatments on scene or on board. If the patient is stable, there is no reason to endanger lives by driving with lights and sirens. Of course, if the patient is unstable, and the crew cannot provide definitive treatment, we get to the hospital ASAP.
For example, in cardiac arrest, advanced life support ambulances carry all the same equipment and medications that would be used in the emergency room (both treat according to ACLS guidelines). Treatment needs to be provided immediately on scene. We cannot afford to wait until we get to the hospital, lights and sirens or not. On the other hand, an unstable patient having a stroke cannot receive definitive treatment in the field. We need to get that patient to the hospital right away. Even then, we drive with due regard. Getting into an accident will only delay treatment. Hope this helps.
9:07 and Kristy In a country which has the greatest medical facilities in the world except that none of us can afford it, I share your concerns. I have often thought that a possible reduction should be given if a person would sign that they would not hold the hospital or anyone involved liable. In most cases this would only affect attorneys (ambulance chasers) and insurance companies. I do know that in five years medicare is going to be very expensive, $247.00 per year and next year it will raise more than social security. I was not aware that a member of a hospital board was compensated with pay, but paid or volunteer I believe that a certain percentage of the board members should be personnel that cannot afford insurance or have experienced hardship. This is not a small percentage of the American public but it is a small percentage in terms of being heard. Everyone should have a voice in our society that is heard from and they should not have to endure insults from those who are presently more fortunate at the time. Always remember say hi to everyone on your way up because it can be very long way down.
ANON 10:45 Thank you for your response to my post 10:59. I totally agree with what you're saying but re-read my post. I was referring to the fact that the ambulance races to the facility with lights and siren blaring but NEVER transfers in such a manner. I understand your safety reasons and I agree with them but shouldn't that also be of concern when going to a call? With modern technology they do know in advance the seriousness of the ambulance request.
In 10:26 AM the $247.00 per year for medicare is not correct. The correct time frame is $247.00 per month for a yearly charge of $2,964.00.
Anonymous 12:28, in some places they do vary the response to the scene based on the seriousness of the call. However, this requires the 911 system to have Emergency Medical Dispatchers (EMDs) who can ask certain questions to the caller to determine the exact nature of the problem. Without EMDs to traige the calls, all responses must be with lights and sirens.
what do you do in the medical field kristy? where do you work i thought you were self employed? another story you are fabricating?
Went shopping today at HyVee. Some kind of big sale going on because the place was packed. Saw the ambulance in the parking lot (empty). I fear that where they were parked and because of the increased traffic in the parking lot they could not respond to an emergency call in the normal amount of time. Don't know whether they were eating or shopping.
im sick and tired of hearing comments that put down the service. if you fear that they cant get to you in the right amount of time that makes you happy..then stay outta the town. if they can not go get their food how do you expect them to stay hydrated and nurished to respond to your call for help? they do a great job and deserve a pay increase if you ask me. so like i said bashing the service will just look bad on you cuz you look like a bunch of idiots.
5:28 Your English and typing skills need a great deal of work. Why do the ambulance workers have to go out and eat? Why can't they either bring their lunch or send someone out to get it and bring it back to the station? I don't understand why we needed a centrally located station if the units never stay located there. Are ambulances supposed to canvas the town looking for those in need? I'm not saying they don't do a good job I'm just saying why are they roaming the city?
Anonymous 6:51, I don't work at PVAS, but I might be able to provide some insight. The folks at PVAS are running 24 hour shifts. So, it's not a matter of just "bringing your lunch." If they "send someone out to get it," that person needs to bring an ambulance (and partner) with them because all personnel who are working need to be ready to respond to a call at any time.
The bottom line in any service is response time. If PVAS is meeting response time goals (there are national standards for this), then the issue is moot. I have not heard of any complaints that PVAS is not meeting response time goals. Keep in mind that a crew at Hyvee will get to an accident on I-80 or a heart attack at WalMart faster than a crew at the station. I'm not sure that there is an issue here.
Cranky Medic
When working 24 hour shifts, is an allowance made for sleeping as staying awake that length of time is not good for the medics or the people you are treating. Recently heard a newscast with comments about 12 hour shifts and how people are not as sharp as those that work only 8.
Is working 24 hours a standard shift for most ambulance services?. Please give us some information as to how you schedule your shifts.
Not comfortable to think that an ambulance emt going out on a call, has been awake for 18 to 14 hours.
Lois are you aware that our local hospital E.R. physicians work 24-hour shifts as well as some nursing staff working 12-hour shifts? If you're "not comfortable to think that an ambulance EMT going out on a call has been awake for 18 to 14 hours"; then are you just as uncomfortable regarding our local E.R. physicians and nursing staff? In all fairness EMS folks are not the only people in the medical field working anywhere from 12 - 24 hours. What about our construction workers or those IDOT workers who are out over 24-hours plowing snow in the winter. There are many people in todays work force that work 12 - 24 hours a day so DON'T single out Ambulance EMT's!
Firemen work 24 hour shifts and Police work 12 hour shifts. Military also work 24 hour shifts. Also emergency room doctors will work as many as 40-72 hour shifts. I agree is this the best possible situation? No. Is it reality? Yes.
10:22AM
Yes I am aware of all you say about shifts because I have worked as a Registered Nurse. I worked 8 hr shifts just about the time 12 hr shifts came on the scene. Nurses that worked specialty department liked them, floor nurses did not. I am also aware that occasionally nurses worked a double shift which would only amount to 16 hours and they were definitely ready to go home and sleep after that.
Thee has been frequent discussions about the long hours required by resident doctors and I believe some laws were passed to allow only x number of hours working to avoid the hazards of poor decisions made because of fatique. E. R. doctors locally I'm sure usually get time to catch a nap or at least close their eyes and rest a bit.
Don't know that people are plowing snow for 24 hours but believe they would get rest time. I understand the 12hours shift because they work less days per week, I have a problem with anyone working 24 because common sense says you are not as sharp after being awake for such long and I think research would validate that.
correction
"after being awake for so long"
Lois
How many calls do you think they go on in a 24 hour shift? It's not like they are constantly running from call to call. Just like that doctor that gets to take a nap...so do they.
Question: How many ambulances do we have and how many personnel are on the payroll?
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