This blog is maintained for the sole purpose of allowing the people of Peru and those interested in the cities of the Illinois Valley to express their views.
“It doesn’t take a majority to win, just a tireless minority that will keep starting brush fires in the mind and hearts of their fellow men.” Samuel Adams
Interesting: "Just in the last five years, the number of educators earning more than $100,000 has doubled to 17,000. By 2017, more than 10,000 educators will enjoy a taxpayer guaranteed lifetime pension exceeding $100,000 per year."
It will not be long before our local salaries are this high. In order to attract qualified individuals to make the trek "downstate" and take a job in Dog Patch - even the mediocre teachers are going to demand six figure salaries to do a $50K job.
Give the teachers some respect most don't earn anything close to six figures and they educate our children. Now if you knock the union construction industry you get we built America and work hard for our wages. That industry is paid more than teachers! It gets old when you hear blue collar workers attack educator wages. Teachers understand that they will make less than the local truck driver, crane operator, pipefitter. Pay a teacher and you get the complaints.
Should Public School Teachers be some sort of protected class? Should we genuflect whenever one walks in the room? Entry level Public School Teachers are paid a wage that is commensurate with any entry level professional with the possible exception of a lawyer or doctor. Senior level Public School Teachers and Education Industry Administrators are paid far more than they are worth. This averages out to a higher wage than is necessary to get the work done. It has been proven by private and charter schools that are not required to negotiate with a union.
The only construction workers that get paid a high wage are the ones that work on government projects - this is due to government artificially inflating the wage through the "prevailing wage" legislation required for those projects. If contractors could honestly bid the work, the price would come in much lower because they would not have to pay a laborer the wage of an engineer.
1:24 - please inform us oh enlightened one. I stand by what I said. Teachers in Illinois are very well compensated considering the job that they actually do.
I have to agree with 3:48. I'm not a teacher. Both my parents were and alot of my husband's family are teachers. My sister in law just retired from teaching after 30 years in a town 40 miles from Peru. She will get 70k a year. So wrong. In 30 years she didn't work for 90 months. How many years is that???? Plus, look at all the days off in the months she did work. Too many people become teachers for the wrong reason if you get my drift. The dumbest football player with a football scholarship goes to college, what's his major? TEACHING. I KNOW A BUNCH. SORRY, BUT TRUE. YES, THERE ARE GREAT TEACHERS, BUT THEY ALL ARE OVERPAID. MY OPINION.
In reference to wages there is a large confusion between administration in comparison to a teacher. 3:48 PM What do you mean by "the job they actually do"? 3:48 have you ever taught a classroom of 35 children?
11:20 - come on, they don't work very hard. They read from lesson plan prepared by somebody else. If the kids go wild, they call somebody to haul them off. They have more time off for "professional development" during he workweek than any other profession in history. Most other professionals handle this on their own time. They have a strict schedule - no overtime. Their day ends at the same time every day - no surprises. When they do have to stay late for any reason, they get extra pay (FYI every other professional just chalks up staying late and coming in early as being part of the job and included in the salary). They get paid to attend school sporting events. Oh... then there is the summer time.
8:46 AM You have fully convinced me that the teaching profession is unneeded and a complete waste of human flesh and taxpayers money. By your standards we should only have schools without teachers and any other form of adult supervision to send our children to. This environment would definitely raise the intelligence of people such as yourself and you could still have the summertime. WOW! Where do you get them from Lois?
10:25. I said no such thing. All I said was that they don't have a very difficult job and they are often overcompensated. There is a difference between the necessity of doing something and how difficult it is to do. You have to admit, teaching is a pretty sweet gig. If I knew "back then" what I know now, I would have gone in to that profession and lived the easy life instead of toiling away in an industry that expects you to be able to prove results. Oh well, hind sight is 20-20 I guess. You are a bit emotional, maybe you should seek some counseling. Do you often react like this when confronted with reality?
Ok now, I'm ready for you to invoke the "its for the children" clause.
A recent report from the Heritage Foundation stated that "...on average, public-school teachers receive total compensation that is roughly 50 percent higher than what they would receive in private-sector employment. While salaries are at appropriate levels, fringe benefits push teacher compensation far ahead of what private-sector workers enjoy."
I wonder what would happen if I went to my boss and said; "Hey Boss, I'm tired of this dirty old BA. I'm going to trade it in on a fancy new MA and you are going to pay for it. Then you are going to pay me more just because I have am MA - even though I don't need it and will be doing the same job. Then I'm going to make you pay for my PhD and I'll start administering... yah, that's when the gravy really hits."
What other industry allows you to work one summer babysitting kids then become a "union rep," then retire and get paid out of the same "teacher's pension" without actually working for the school? OH... forgot about the retire at 50 part.
To teach you would have had to attend and graduate from College and then continue to gain credits to maintain your credentials. You would also have to work for 25 years and be 55 to obtain that pension. The school year begins in August and runs thru May. No rain days. I don't know what you call a difficult job, teaching isn't always easy. What industry are you making the comparison with? Teacher's in today's world have many different roles than they had years ago. They serve as a parent, role model, motivator and disciplinarian for many of the kids that have absent parent's or absent parenting skills. There are many. My point is that if your complaining about teacher pay you have little use for the valuable input they have. Did you ever hear of a successful person that didn't have a good teacher somewhere down the line? Your profession may have a lot to do with your distain for teachers. There is still time for you to gain that education and be what you want to.
12:43, quite the contrary. I think they do a marvelous job for the most part. I just don't think they are underpaid - they might be over paid. Remember, there is only so much money. If the Education Industry - which is everything, not just the front line pay - continues to take a larger and larger piece of the pie - there will be no pie left. Then we all starve. The problem with that industry is that there is no free market to control wages. They just continue to go up. So - bear with me now - if you sold widgets, the price of your widget is determined by how much your customer is willing to pay and how much actual cash he has. A very rare widget might be "valuable" - so valuable that your customer can't pay for it. This does you no good. Therefore, you must lower the price of your widget, even though you think it is worth more. Because, in all actuality, it is worthless because you priced it above the ability of the market to pay for it. So, unless you lower the price you will starve to death.
Now, when it comes to salaries... in the private sector, the employer sets a wage. If there is an excess of people to fill the position, the wage goes down due to completion among potential workers. If there is a specialized skill that the market cannot provide, the wage might go up. I say might, because even that specially skilled person needs to be able to produce a widget in the form of goods or services. That widget must have a market also. So - even if you are the only person in the world that can perform a certain task - you might not be valuable because your widget is not needed or wanted. Or, maybe your market cannot afford your widget and you need to lower your price - passing this all the way down your supply chain and labor.
Now - government on the other hand believes that the supply of money to buy widgets (a good or service) is unlimited. They also believe that the labor rate should be continuously adjusted up despite the lack of ability for the market to pay for it.
So - in a nut shell. Teachers, you do a good job. But your widget is to expensive and the market does not have the ability to pay for it. Time to cut back and adjust your prices otherwise - nobody will buy your widget and we will all starve.
@4:25 College is a big deal and becoming bigger. Evidently you are very wealthy or have not sent any of your children to college recently.Sadly the majority of students do not graduate without huge debt. The schools are seeing a big reduction in students even though the U.S. is full of internationals. 40% of the U of I are Asians and many colleges are filled up with students from India. The International student is where the grant money goes also.
Anon 4:25 PM Logically completing your statement, college is not that big a deal anymore - if you do not wish your vocation to be a professional occupation. A college degree will open a lot of doors which someone without will never have the opportunity to test and be tested if they can handle the same occupation as well. For those who have aptitudes in a different direction there is also opportunity. This is one reason why you have to believe in the good old U.S.A.
"College is not that big a deal anymore"......said the person who didn't go to college.
I will tell you what. I sent my three kids to college and all are doing well. You skip sending yours and let's see where they are in ten years. I'll bet mine are doing better.
There are MANY ways to get post high school training, but to say college isn't that important is the most misleading lie you can tell. Unlimited statistics to prove that again and again. Of course there are individuals who do well who did not go. But blanket statement like your are patently false.
I'll send my kids to college and hope and pray my grand kids go. You have to think long term. Crazy, idiotic comments.
9:55 the meaning of the statement "not a big deal anymore" is that it is "normal." College is not exceptional. It is a "tick box" that everyone has get checked off. that is what I meant by not a big deal any more - education after high school is a requirement.
You know what is exceptional? High School and College graduates that can actually perform a task in the work place. The degree of direction and supervision required for entry level professionals is disgraceful. And they always have a reason why something can't be done. Then there are those with Mamas. I had a new guy's Mama call in sick for him the other day. She said he was delicate and should not be worked so hard! I predict I will find some reason to fire him soon.
Anon 12}30 PM You know what is exceptional in the work place for quite some time is management that takes enough interest to donate the necessary time to new employees so that they can actually perform a task on their own with proficiency. I also have found it disgraceful that supervision knows so little about the jobs that it is responsible for that it has to assign training to future co-workers of the person being trained and still worse is that most times the supervisor does not assign the correct person to train. Repeatedly they assign training to the top producer rather than the most knowledgeable, resulting in a long build up of errors. Truthfully how many Mamas have you encountered similar to your description and what is your evaluation of your HR. I often recall many, many years ago as a young supervisor being told by a very old timer "If the student hasn't learned the teacher hasn't taught". You 12:30 PM are failing by not understanding your job and instead of thinking of improving you are directing your intentions upon firing possible outstanding future employees. Remember the employee feels your work place disposition. With your present attitude I would not work for you!
A good supervisor knows how to perform every job that he is in charge of, he doesn't have to be the best but he has to know how to do it. Years ago one worked their way through the ranks and gained floor experience. Simply obtaining a formal education does not replace on the floor experience. Also in the past there was a mutual respect between the supervisor and the worker, today the supervisor is instructed to have a individual work history of anything that the employee has said about the company and its management team, all negative comments, any disagreements no matter how small, all failures performed on the job etc., etc.
I'm talking about operating a simple computer program like Microsoft Excel - not rocket science here. Just enter the numbers and let the program manipulate them. 5 out of 6 college graduates can't even grasp the simple concept of gross profit margin. Aren't the schools supposed to teach the basics? Well, they aren't. At least the kids around here are not learning them - or maybe it is just the ones that stay here that don't.
I just sent this whole thread to every school in the area. With all the bad mouthing from the people on this blog leads me to wonder are you the parents that drop off your kids and expect the teachers to raise your kids.. When little Johnny or Sally get a bad grade you blame the teachers instead of making your kids study instead of playing on the computer.
You should all have to go into a class room and deal with kids that are disrespectful and just tell the teachers that their parents will sue the school if they don't get their way. not one of you would last a day
1:14, what does that have to do with anything. This entire string stated with a simple opinion that teachers are fairly if not over compensated for the job they do. What do you want? A $500K salary with and a free Unicorn? Do you want trumpets to sound as you drive down the street to inform all mere mortals that at "Teacher" is approaching? Get off your high horse and get back to work.
2:42 just chiming in here but you are the same person who says the same things over and over again. We get that you have disdain for teachers and people with "government" jobs but the fact of the matter is most people do not share your view. When you say things as you do you lose any credibility. No one is trying to make teachers into martyrs but your bashing of an entire profession and cherry picking numbers is just kind of ridiculous.
I hire people all of the time and I can tell you one thing and that is if you aren't finding good people, the problem is you. I have had no trouble at all. Of course if your general attitude toward certain people comes across in the workplace, that really doesn't surprise me either.
27 comments:
Interesting: "Just in the last five years, the number of educators earning more than $100,000 has doubled to 17,000. By 2017, more than 10,000 educators will enjoy a taxpayer guaranteed lifetime pension exceeding $100,000 per year."
It will not be long before our local salaries are this high. In order to attract qualified individuals to make the trek "downstate" and take a job in Dog Patch - even the mediocre teachers are going to demand six figure salaries to do a $50K job.
http://wgntv.com/2015/09/16/prospect-heights-district-23-teachers-on-strike-classes-canceled-today/
Give the teachers some respect most don't earn anything close to six figures and they educate our children. Now if you knock the union construction industry you get we built America and work hard for our wages. That industry is paid more than teachers! It gets old when you hear blue collar workers attack educator wages. Teachers understand that they will make less than the local truck driver, crane operator, pipefitter. Pay a teacher and you get the complaints.
Should Public School Teachers be some sort of protected class? Should we genuflect whenever one walks in the room? Entry level Public School Teachers are paid a wage that is commensurate with any entry level professional with the possible exception of a lawyer or doctor. Senior level Public School Teachers and Education Industry Administrators are paid far more than they are worth. This averages out to a higher wage than is necessary to get the work done. It has been proven by private and charter schools that are not required to negotiate with a union.
The only construction workers that get paid a high wage are the ones that work on government projects - this is due to government artificially inflating the wage through the "prevailing wage" legislation required for those projects. If contractors could honestly bid the work, the price would come in much lower because they would not have to pay a laborer the wage of an engineer.
Could you people possibly be any more ignorant and or uninformed? OMG!
1:24 - please inform us oh enlightened one. I stand by what I said. Teachers in Illinois are very well compensated considering the job that they actually do.
I have to agree with 3:48. I'm not a teacher. Both my parents were and alot of my husband's family are teachers. My sister in law just retired from teaching after 30 years in a town 40 miles from Peru. She will get 70k a year. So wrong. In 30 years she didn't work for 90 months. How many years is that???? Plus, look at all the days off in the months she did work. Too many people become teachers for the wrong reason if you get my drift. The dumbest football player with a football scholarship goes to college, what's his major? TEACHING. I KNOW A BUNCH. SORRY, BUT TRUE. YES, THERE ARE GREAT TEACHERS, BUT THEY ALL ARE OVERPAID. MY OPINION.
In reference to wages there is a large confusion between administration in comparison to a teacher. 3:48 PM What do you mean by "the job they actually do"? 3:48 have you ever taught a classroom of 35 children?
11:20 - come on, they don't work very hard. They read from lesson plan prepared by somebody else. If the kids go wild, they call somebody to haul them off. They have more time off for "professional development" during he workweek than any other profession in history. Most other professionals handle this on their own time. They have a strict schedule - no overtime. Their day ends at the same time every day - no surprises. When they do have to stay late for any reason, they get extra pay (FYI every other professional just chalks up staying late and coming in early as being part of the job and included in the salary). They get paid to attend school sporting events. Oh... then there is the summer time.
8:46 AM You have fully convinced me that the teaching profession is unneeded and a complete waste of human flesh and taxpayers money. By your standards we should only have schools without teachers and any other form of adult supervision to send our children to. This environment would definitely raise the intelligence of people such as yourself and you could still have the summertime. WOW! Where do you get them from Lois?
10:25. I said no such thing. All I said was that they don't have a very difficult job and they are often overcompensated. There is a difference between the necessity of doing something and how difficult it is to do. You have to admit, teaching is a pretty sweet gig. If I knew "back then" what I know now, I would have gone in to that profession and lived the easy life instead of toiling away in an industry that expects you to be able to prove results. Oh well, hind sight is 20-20 I guess. You are a bit emotional, maybe you should seek some counseling. Do you often react like this when confronted with reality?
Ok now, I'm ready for you to invoke the "its for the children" clause.
A recent report from the Heritage Foundation stated that "...on average, public-school teachers receive total compensation that is roughly 50 percent higher than what they would receive in private-sector employment. While salaries are at appropriate levels, fringe benefits push teacher compensation far ahead of what private-sector workers enjoy."
I wonder what would happen if I went to my boss and said; "Hey Boss, I'm tired of this dirty old BA. I'm going to trade it in on a fancy new MA and you are going to pay for it. Then you are going to pay me more just because I have am MA - even though I don't need it and will be doing the same job. Then I'm going to make you pay for my PhD and I'll start administering... yah, that's when the gravy really hits."
What other industry allows you to work one summer babysitting kids then become a "union rep," then retire and get paid out of the same "teacher's pension" without actually working for the school? OH... forgot about the retire at 50 part.
12:06
To teach you would have had to attend and graduate from College and then continue to gain credits to maintain your credentials. You would also have to work for 25 years and be 55 to obtain that pension. The school year begins in August and runs thru May. No rain days. I don't know what you call a difficult job, teaching isn't always easy. What industry are you making the comparison with? Teacher's in today's world have many different roles than they had years ago. They serve as a parent, role model, motivator and disciplinarian for many of the kids that have absent parent's or absent parenting skills. There are many.
My point is that if your complaining about teacher pay you have little use for the valuable input they have. Did you ever hear of a successful person that didn't have a good teacher somewhere down the line? Your profession may have a lot to do with your distain for teachers. There is still time for you to gain that education and be what you want to.
12:43, quite the contrary. I think they do a marvelous job for the most part. I just don't think they are underpaid - they might be over paid. Remember, there is only so much money. If the Education Industry - which is everything, not just the front line pay - continues to take a larger and larger piece of the pie - there will be no pie left. Then we all starve. The problem with that industry is that there is no free market to control wages. They just continue to go up. So - bear with me now - if you sold widgets, the price of your widget is determined by how much your customer is willing to pay and how much actual cash he has. A very rare widget might be "valuable" - so valuable that your customer can't pay for it. This does you no good. Therefore, you must lower the price of your widget, even though you think it is worth more. Because, in all actuality, it is worthless because you priced it above the ability of the market to pay for it. So, unless you lower the price you will starve to death.
Now, when it comes to salaries... in the private sector, the employer sets a wage. If there is an excess of people to fill the position, the wage goes down due to completion among potential workers. If there is a specialized skill that the market cannot provide, the wage might go up. I say might, because even that specially skilled person needs to be able to produce a widget in the form of goods or services. That widget must have a market also. So - even if you are the only person in the world that can perform a certain task - you might not be valuable because your widget is not needed or wanted. Or, maybe your market cannot afford your widget and you need to lower your price - passing this all the way down your supply chain and labor.
Now - government on the other hand believes that the supply of money to buy widgets (a good or service) is unlimited. They also believe that the labor rate should be continuously adjusted up despite the lack of ability for the market to pay for it.
So - in a nut shell. Teachers, you do a good job. But your widget is to expensive and the market does not have the ability to pay for it. Time to cut back and adjust your prices otherwise - nobody will buy your widget and we will all starve.
12:43, what professional occupation does not require you to go to and graduate from college? College is not that big of a deal anymore.
@4:25 College is a big deal and becoming bigger. Evidently you are very wealthy or have not sent any of your children to college recently.Sadly the majority of students do not graduate without huge debt. The schools are seeing a big reduction in students even though the U.S. is full of internationals. 40% of the U of I are Asians and many colleges are filled up with students from India. The International student is where the grant money goes also.
Anon 4:25 PM Logically completing your statement, college is not that big a deal anymore - if you do not wish your vocation to be a professional occupation.
A college degree will open a lot of doors which someone without will never have the opportunity to test and be tested if they can handle the same occupation as well.
For those who have aptitudes in a different direction there is also opportunity. This is one reason why you have to believe in the good old U.S.A.
"College is not that big a deal anymore"......said the person who didn't go to college.
I will tell you what. I sent my three kids to college and all are doing well. You skip sending yours and let's see where they are in ten years. I'll bet mine are doing better.
There are MANY ways to get post high school training, but to say college isn't that important is the most misleading lie you can tell. Unlimited statistics to prove that again and again. Of course there are individuals who do well who did not go. But blanket statement like your are patently false.
I'll send my kids to college and hope and pray my grand kids go. You have to think long term. Crazy, idiotic comments.
9:55 the meaning of the statement "not a big deal anymore" is that it is "normal." College is not exceptional. It is a "tick box" that everyone has get checked off. that is what I meant by not a big deal any more - education after high school is a requirement.
You know what is exceptional? High School and College graduates that can actually perform a task in the work place. The degree of direction and supervision required for entry level professionals is disgraceful. And they always have a reason why something can't be done. Then there are those with Mamas. I had a new guy's Mama call in sick for him the other day. She said he was delicate and should not be worked so hard! I predict I will find some reason to fire him soon.
Anon 12}30 PM You know what is exceptional in the work place for quite some time is management that takes enough interest to donate the necessary time to new employees so that they can actually perform a task on their own with proficiency. I also have found it disgraceful that supervision knows so little about the jobs that it is responsible for that it has to assign training to future co-workers of the person being trained and still worse is that most times the supervisor does not assign the correct person to train. Repeatedly they assign training to the top producer rather than the most knowledgeable, resulting in a long build up of errors.
Truthfully how many Mamas have you encountered similar to your description and what is your evaluation of your HR.
I often recall many, many years ago as a young supervisor being told by a very old timer "If the student hasn't learned the teacher hasn't taught". You 12:30 PM are failing by not understanding your job and instead of thinking of improving you are directing your intentions upon firing possible outstanding future employees. Remember the employee feels your work place disposition. With your present attitude I would not work for you!
A good supervisor knows how to perform every job that he is in charge of, he doesn't have to be the best but he has to know how to do it. Years ago one worked their way through the ranks and gained floor experience. Simply obtaining a formal education does not replace on the floor experience.
Also in the past there was a mutual respect between the supervisor and the worker, today the supervisor is instructed to have a individual work history of anything that the employee has said about the company and its management team, all negative comments, any disagreements no matter how small, all failures performed on the job etc., etc.
I'm talking about operating a simple computer program like Microsoft Excel - not rocket science here. Just enter the numbers and let the program manipulate them. 5 out of 6 college graduates can't even grasp the simple concept of gross profit margin. Aren't the schools supposed to teach the basics? Well, they aren't. At least the kids around here are not learning them - or maybe it is just the ones that stay here that don't.
I know a high school teacher making $100,000 a year that can't make change when we play the Monopoly board game! She says numbers confuse her.
I just sent this whole thread to every school in the area. With all the bad mouthing from the people on this blog leads me to wonder are you the parents that drop off your kids and expect the teachers to raise your kids.. When little Johnny or Sally get a bad grade you blame the teachers instead of making your kids study instead of playing on the computer.
You should all have to go into a class room and deal with kids that are disrespectful and just tell the teachers that their parents will sue the school if they don't get their way. not one of you would last a day
1:14, what does that have to do with anything. This entire string stated with a simple opinion that teachers are fairly if not over compensated for the job they do. What do you want? A $500K salary with and a free Unicorn? Do you want trumpets to sound as you drive down the street to inform all mere mortals that at "Teacher" is approaching? Get off your high horse and get back to work.
2:42 just chiming in here but you are the same person who says the same things over and over again. We get that you have disdain for teachers and people with "government" jobs but the fact of the matter is most people do not share your view. When you say things as you do you lose any credibility. No one is trying to make teachers into martyrs but your bashing of an entire profession and cherry picking numbers is just kind of ridiculous.
I hire people all of the time and I can tell you one thing and that is if you aren't finding good people, the problem is you. I have had no trouble at all. Of course if your general attitude toward certain people comes across in the workplace, that really doesn't surprise me either.
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